Issues with Evolve - a community plea

#1

Issues with Evolve

Hello, my name is Polas. I play for team Evolve HYPE!, a competitive team that has been around since basically the beginning of competitive evolve. I have played in the majority of Go4Evolve ESL tournaments on PC, as well as on the Xbox One’s Proving Grounds 100k tournament, for which our team all bought consoles to compete (our team came in 5th NA). I leveled an account to 40 on PC as well as on xbox and put in countless hours of practice into this game with my team and by myself. I love this game and genuinely enjoy playing the game. The reason I am making this post is because I completely adore your games, not just Evolve. I have literally thousands of hours in Left 4 Dead, and it is most likely my favorite game of all time. I want to see this game become great so badly. With that said, I have a lot of issues with the game and feel like they need to be shared. I have gone around to some other notable and competitive Evolve players to gather their thoughts on the game, their problems with it, as well as ideas on how to improve the game we love.

· Communication with the Community

Hearing “it’s coming” isn’t good enough. You should share more details with your player base. You announced the Proving Grounds 100k tournament days before it started. If given more time to prepare, people would have had time to form teams and create new strategies. The turnout for the tournament would have been much better. Players would have discussed the tournament beforehand as well as generate hype and attention for the event. The same idea goes for patches. Information given a few weeks in advance helps get reactions, generate excitement, and get feedback from your community. Please let us know what is going on. We don’t want to be left in the dark. It is beneficial for both parties.

· Competitive effects regular players

Identify how important a competitive scene is to a game. If you have a great competitive scene, it grows the casual community. When the community have players to learn from, they want to play the game more. The competitive scene does not change anything about the game to make it playable. We are simply playing the vanilla game at a high level and the game should be balanced accordingly. When there’s lack of attention to balance (unplayable hunters/monster builds) the game begins to get dull.

· Community

Teams involved are very important. There essentially is a ladder in place. For example, new players and casual players who watch weekend tournaments love watching a high-level player perform. A game with a competitive scene inspires people to innovate new strategies which, in turn, helps you to balance the game. During tournament play, viewers ask if a certain team or player is playing. The main viewership has a drive to see certain playstyles. If you don’t keep a competitive community, it hurts the player base on all levels. There needs to be an incentive: a reason for high level players to keep playing. We are at a dead end with no where to go.

· Interaction with the community through Twitch

On a daily basis, I will see evolve on twitch.tv with under 100 viewers. Whenever a competitive player starts streaming they gather viewers a lot faster than your casual player. People like to watch people who are good at the game. If you start losing those known names on evolve, your twitch presence will die completely. Streaming DB_Sinclair playing public games just talking with the chat is horribly boring to watch. We want to watch the best in the game, so we can learn how to get better at the game, and we can see those exciting clutch plays. Instead, let someone like Source_TV or Legendary to stream on your official stream. They can give out tips, show the community high level play, and give players something to aspire to become. It should become a weekly event. Top-tier competitive players streaming, discussing, and giving out tips on the official stream would pull a lot more viewers than a laidback Q&A stream.

· Competitive Avenues

You cannot rely on ESL to keep the competitive scene alive. You can not ONLY have ESL for your competition. While having lan tournaments is really awesome, and in some cases needed, it is not the end all. It’d be awesome if the game included a section for competing with other teams. If it kept track of a ladder with seasons for teams to compete inside, you’d be able to have your own environment for competitive play. This would allow you to tweak everything that you’d possibly want to change much easier and faster, on top of having a native competitive statistics list that you’d be able to check at your discretion.

· Community events

The community events for the skins are cool, but do not really accomplish anything. It does not bring in new players. These resources could be used on something that would grow the community.

· Current pace and balance of the game

The current pace of the game is not where it should be. Hunters should not be able to kill a monster in 1 dome. Monsters should not be able to evolve in 1 minute, with almost no counter-play from the hunters. Currently, hunters can hold the dome against a stage 1 monster and decide the game on the stage 2 evolve dome. The monster not ever being able to evolve safely is a problem that is still waiting to be addressed. Playing against something like cabot + hyde, and dying incredibly fast is not fun. Honestly, at the moment it seems balance is not a priority, and it has to be.

· European Tournament

The European tournament should not have been announced. I’m serious when I say that announcing this tournament was one of the worst decisions you could have made. This has only split the already small competitive scene in half. Arguably the top team at the moment, Ninja Penguins, is going to be crippled since their monster player is from North America, and their hunter squad is from Europe. I am not exaggerating when I say this tournament could literally destroy the competitive scene. I know plenty of players that have already decided on quitting because of the announcement. The North American teams have no incentive to play at all. What would be the drive to bring a team together right now? Why would a new team form? You would have honestly been better off not having a tournament, then announcing this European only tournament. It was a horrible decision. Every single person I have talked to, including North Americans and Europeans, would have preferred nearly anything to this. An online only tournament with a prize pool of 10k, for Americans and Europeans and everyone else would have been vastly superior.

· Call for Action
If you have a red button, you need to push it. This isn’t just damage control at this point, it’s a serious issue. This is not just a small “oops” or something that is “on the list”. Balance has to be a top priority. In 1-2 weeks you will not have a PC competitive scene. Something needs to change NOW, within the next few weeks, or it will be too late.

We really love what you guys are doing. This game is amazing and deserves to be far more popular and greater than it already is. I make this post because of how passionate myself and others are about this game. We are scared to see this game die out, we all want to see it succeed.

This article is supported and influenced by the following members of the Evolve community:
Polas
Bronc
Vode
Sabr
Cyril
Aurora Symphony
Tonic
Laran
Shinya
TheElusiveGod
TheThingy
Verci
Savvy?
Nightwane
Roon
Spanners
Araji
Source_Tv
Conjugates
Aeruine
[Epex] Nightmare
[TAW] Karmataurus
Avexon
Generic
Killdrith
Andrew
Rikku
WiBaKi
MaZZeLgg
LIQUIDUTY
Gakillerz
SkyCorsona
Chromo
Unicorn Udderz
Pul$3
[TAW] Hulu+
JawsToe
Destructus
dylanfrye6
Paul
DronePa
Aimy Bot
Dizz
Make Me Quit
Miracle
Woyldman
Moiser
Shan
Aeruine
Hawkishbeast
Drathek
Hippienut
OneTrickPony

@Shaners, @Chloe, @MacMan

54 Likes
RIP SALGE - A Girthy Story
#2

+1 to everything about this

Edit. I was asked to tag @DB_Sinclair @MrStrategio and @DamJess

6 Likes
#3

Feel free to add me to that list. I agree with everything you said.

7 Likes
#4

I just want to clarify something here, because a lot of people saw I had read this, but I have not signed this petition.

I do agree with a lot of things that have been said here. However, a lot of these things are not specifically TRS’ or even some cases 2K’s issues, nor should they be aimed at them. I did agree with the issues stated here, and that they do need addressing, however I did not want to put my name behind a petition I did not feel was worded in a way I agreed with, and did not feel comfortable putting my name behind this.

I know there are a lot of people who were angry when they heard I was not signing, however I hope you can understand or even just acknowledge that I have taken this decision. Thank you.

6 Likes
#5

+1 for NA incentive!

3 Likes
#6

If you practice ‘30 hours a day’ you should be allowed to compete :sob:

3 Likes
#7

Their is a special department devoted to when things get announced. I have no idea about anything with tournaments, but they seem to be bad at advertising the game before it launched.

I still don’t know if game is geared towards high teir players or to casual. I believe it’s a mix.

TRA has a stream every week as well as the 2K one. It’s a personal matter for the players though.

ESL is paid by Microsoft, they get expensive. Internet tournaments would be cool though. And you said th same thing twice in the first line. :wink:

Like what?

Hunters could kill a stage 1 in a dome. Depends on the player’s levels.
as to stage 2 doming, my strategy is to armor up, and then do a series of hit and runs. They either dome me or allow me to do a series of hit and runs.

Can’t say much, not in the competitive scene.

Balance is a priority…
Over all you have points, Evolve can improve (everything can improve) but I can’t say much due to not being in the loop towards competitive.
It is hard to balance a game when most players playing it complain about things that are balanced.

3 Likes
#8

I would sign that too, but I’m just a pub pro with the DHE as his greatest enemy :frowning: <3

#9

Completely agree with almost everything here. The only thing that I think should take a priority over balance is the stability of matchmaking, which is in an even worse position than it was before the update. Balance doesn’t matter at all to us if we can’t even play.

2 Likes
#10

Have Contracts with 2K so they can’t usually say more.

100% Agree with you here, but again it’s between 2K ESL and TRS

I see you have only been on the forums 10 hours, don’t know if you have lurked before but:

  1. Plenty of players like @MaddCow do coach newer players and if you want more coaches feel free to join in, I don’t recall seeing any of these “elite teams” once hosting coaching sessions.
  2. Casual Players already accuse TRS of balancing to Competitive and they hate it (but I agree with you they should balance that way!)

Yes and No, On any given night I see a certain Xbox Monster who gets a good chunk of viewers WATER LUCIF3R and I wouldn’t call him the best. I also don’t always see tons of top level players streaming regularly outside of tournaments so there is nothing to watch. Also in the chat during when TRS did the Pro Matches, a good chunk of the chat didn’t seem to care unfortunately.

I agree but this is their first dive into this.

The whole European Tournament section sounds like whining. I know that is not how it is intended but it does. People should have seen this coming. PC was vocal about not having any Tourneys like PG, ESL is based out of Europe. In PG teams were separated by NA and Euro. Also I almost always here about PING issues when there are teams playing with members across the pond. As far as teams having no incentive to play, did the PC Community and the PS4 Community just drop Evolve when only XBox had PG? They seem to survive, and this is literally what, 1 day after they announced this tournament? For all we know there is another Tournament in the works for PC NA, or PS4 or Everyone.

  1. I doubt that
  2. Then that is on you, almost everything deemed a problem is either solvable by the PC community or just something you cannot control.

Overall very well put together and articulated!

4 Likes
#11

I was approached to sign this and debated about it, however, I believe this should have been done privately through an e-mail or PM and not laundry listed as it comes off as pretty vain. I may/may not agree with some of the things, but this should be handled much more professionally than this.

19 Likes
#12

Meh its a community plead more than anything.

Forums are a good to way in my opinion

1 Like
#13

Forum discussion, sure, but having a ‘signed’ note by prominent members isn’t a discussion. It’s basically going to a studio, putting up a letter from ‘the community and prominent members’ and then inviting everyone nearby to watch for reactions. I feel that because it’s posted like this Devs will not be able to comment when if it was submitted through a more private channel they could.

7 Likes
#14

I am kinda disappointed too on how this was handled. This is a petition, and should have been treated as one really. The document was left open to those told about it for maybe 24 hours before being posted here, and really no one was told exactly who this was going to or where it would go.

Does make me kind of glad I did not put my name behind it in a way, as having a name behind something that is not handled correctly just makes the people involved look bad.

8 Likes
#15

You can see i signed the petition, however i agree with everything but this

Yes it sucks for NA players, but i think if they did it EU only is because they have a reason for that and in my opinion is better to have this tournament than nothing at all.
The idea of an online 10k tournament is just bad, it would require major rule changes on esl seeing as the rules they currently have might benefit greatly one team and screw up another, and it could easily be exploited by teams that just want to win, that is not how 10k tournament should be. Also as we can see from esl games every week Evolve and lag don’t work very well.

1 Like
#16

Precisely. Don’t get me wrong, I agree with several points but something like this should have been handled differently is all :slight_smile: I DO hope some good comes from it, truly. I love Evolve and would love to see it where it deserves to be.

4 Likes
#17

You mean to tell me we are looking bad right now because this petittion was handled to forums?

If you think so…Couldn’t care less.Those are some of the problems i have with the game.And i gladly signed.

Except from petition to the devs its a community letter.
Other community memeber can come and tell their problems as well.Say where they agree and where not and why is that.Add more problems that they might forgot to add.

2 Likes
#18

I mean to say that this can’t really be taken in the way it should have been, not nearly as seriously enough as it wanted to be because of how it was delivered.

I didn’t want to say much or get involved, because I felt I was alone in my opinion and people would not like me for it, but I am glad that MaddCow shares my view.

1 Like
#19

You’re definitely not alone here, I will not be putting my name here. But that’s not to say the people who did are looking bad, I support the decision I’m just not getting involved with them.

7 Likes
#20

I do agree with some of these points, but I feel like TRS isn’t always able to communicate things to the community (e.g. T5) because of restrictions by 2k. TRS is only able to do so much, they’re working on as many bugs as they can and still working on getting the rest of T5 ready, asking them to do much isn’t very easy for them. I think these points would be better directed towards 2k rather than TRS.

2 Likes