Isn't Lazarus a little over powered?


#1

So recently I watched an Evolve tournament where the hunter kept winning simply because the Lazarus kept saving teammates. Now I can understand the mechanics and appreciate them but there are several aspects that make the lazarus too strong in my opinion. The speed at which he revives is too fast, it’s barely 5 seconds and rarely enough time for the monster to stop this. The actual activation tends to have little downtime. When revived from being killed teammates come back with a substantial amount of health. The lazarus can go invisble making him very hard to pin down and because of him ability he tends to be the monsters priority. Now not all of these things are over powered but the combination of all them put together makes the lazarus seem almost too powerful. The main points to address in my opinion are:
speed of revival: This is too fast it should be made to take a larger amount and possibly make some large alarm sound so that the monster is warned and has more time to react.
The invisibility: ok so my main problem is the speed of revival and if it where adressed in a manner similar as to how I suggested I guess I could let this go. However if the revival isn’t changed by a supstantial amount i would suggest removing invisibility. Maybe. I’m a little unsure on this one.
Anyway I would much appreciate insite from other people; if you agree or don’t, why? Any other idea’s on how to maybe reduce the lazarus’s strength a little bit?


#2

As posted elsewhere he is still being tweaked. Also invisibility is interrupted when hit by an attack and he gives up healing capabilities that val had in order to revive…all in all he may need tweaking but they have made ways to counteract abilities. It is up to the monster to decapitate laz and as soon as that is done the rest drop like flies with no healer.


#3

I forgot to add the lack of down penality just seems too strong.


#4

My main problem with Lazarus is the super revive speed without a penalty. If you watch from 12:35 to 12:55 of this video, you can see what I’m talking about. The medic barely had to slow down.

I know the monster did make some mistakes, but that quick revive with no penalty really doesn’t seem fair to the monster. After all, they did down the assault, so some penalty should be enforced.

Something I’d like to add: If the revive DOES result in a penalty, then forget everything I just said. However, I’m pretty sure that a revive from Laz does not place a strike on the downed character.

Edit: got ninja’d by the person above me >.>


#5

Honestly, he may or may not be OP. However the perception a lot of people have is that he is OP. I was cringing reading all the hate towards Laz in the twitch chat. A lot of people despised him and were accusing him of ruining the match and worse. Personally I don’t agree with the idea of erasing the monsters progress by denying strikes, but that just my initial feeling. It could change once I start playing.


#6

the strike doesn’t count if the hunters are revived in time, before they are eaten or what not.


#7

The monster is also harder to play, especially to someone new to the kraken, If Laz was properly targeted and a different strategy was played to take advantage of laz resing other hunters to draw laz out it may have ended differently…


#8

I see your point, but I think that Laz can revive so quickly that he can still run in and pull off the revive, even if the monster is right on top of him. His ability to cloak adds on to this even more (I have no problem with the cloak, but I’ll still throw it out there). Maybe this can change as players become more adept at handling the monsters. I’m sure there is plenty of time to figure this out!


#9

The cloak is interrupted when attacked…if an aoe was used it could have shown where laz was.


#10

Here is my check-in notes on Laz for Monday’s playtest. Figured it might be cool for everyone to see what typical balance adjustments look like. Tuning is a simple matter of changing numbers in a text file. Easy to do.

  • 30% longer cloak reveal time if you take damage. This helps to “discover” Laz and forces him to be more careful. Wading into combat will reveal him and likely get him killed.
  • 25% longer Lazarus Device fire time. You have to hold down the button to fire the device (as an FYI) and when you press the fire button, you decloak. So now you’ll be decloaked for a little longer when you try to bring someone back.
  • Increased Lazarus Device recharge time by 40%. Won’t make a different if one teammate goes down but will throttle it a bit when multiple teammates are down.

We’ll see how it goes!


A little video for those who got issues with Lazarus
#11

I personally thought of making it only remove the stack when you revive them with the Laz device, but not when you revive them from death. I mean saving someone who already died is already big enough, but then also making it seem like they never died in the first place seems a bit to good too be true. I just feel like that aspect is just too strong.


#12

I was thinking something kind of similar, my thing is this: If Lazarus Device can revive from death, then why does it prevent strikes? Instant death isn’t a big worry as long as Laz is standing but it does let the monster make some progress instead of NO PROGRESS if Lazarus is up.

Right now Laz feels TOO pivotal because he stops ALL progress. Simply reviving out of death is strong, if it didn’t remove strikes he would feel less pivotal early on but still be a priority come late game.

These are just random musings though, I think we should maybe ask @MacMan to check back in a week or two after those changes he has ready for Monday go through.


#13

Yeah, we played with Laz for a couple months without removing strikes, but strikes are designed to make Hunters weak and easy to kill. If you’re on third strike, a Stage one monster can drop you really easily.

Laz was underpowered as a result. After the first battle, the team would never be the same again where as Val and Hank could keep teammates from ever going incapped in the first place (nobody would have strikes.) Teammates hated playing with Laz cause it meant you’d always have strikes.

I think people here are underestimating how hard it is to get strikes against Val and Hank. Most of the time you can’t incap even a single Hunter at Stage 1.

It would be interesting to dig up some data on hunter strikes gained vs Val and compare that against Laz. I bet they are actually really similar.

That second dev match on Thursday where the monster won, the Hunters had a pile of strikes.


#14

Haha, I figured you guys had tried it already! But I thought I’d voice it anyways.

I really like the look of Val as a character and from the sounds of it, she sounds like a lot of fun too.

Again, it will be interesting to see what kind of results your changes yield.


#15

I love the fact that it removes strikes you would get when you revive a downed teammate. Yet I think there is no penalty to actually having the player die. Since people playing with Laz will mostly always have him reviving them it doesn’t matter if they die or are downed no matter what they will still come back with no strikes. I think there should be some kind of penalty for him not saving them from dying maybe longer revive time? That could work if you didn’t want to fully remove the strike removal from dead teammates.


#16

Maybe. We generally try to keep things as simple as possible so if there is a way to keep things consistant, we’ll go that route first.

It’s pretty easy for a monster to kill an incapped player and once they do, Laz has a limited amount of time to get to the body. Another easy tuning variable is adjusting how long that window is.


#17

I don’t think Laz is overpowered at all. What he does is sort of the equivalent of Val, except he does it by bringing them straight back. If you imagine Val, she’ll fully restore someone who is almost dead/incapped. That’s sort of the same as bringing someone back without giving them a strike penalty.
It’s hard to explain what I mean but in my head it makes sense :stuck_out_tongue:


#18

i duno the only thing i think could be op right now is a hank laz combo where the medic gets shielded and cloaked nonstop -.-


#19

I am pretty sure it wouldn’t be non stop if the cloaked person takes damage and cloak is interrupted and if you pull the trigger to shoot it Is interrupted as well…


#20

Keep in mind if Laz is shielded then he isn’t being kept hidden. The blue projection that comes out of Hank’s shield gun is basically a massive line pointing to Laz saying “Here he is”