Index: [8.0] Hank vs Cabot vs Sunny Balance(polls)


#1

assume characters are working with their optimal comp but the monster could still be any monster

Comparison

Who is the strongest out of the three?

  • Hank
  • Cabot
  • Sunny

0 voters

Who is the most balanced out of the three?

  • Cousin Hank
  • O captain my captain
  • Shady

0 voters

Who is the weakest out of the three?

  • Hankypoo
  • Everybody loves that damage amp!
  • Master of Shield Drones

0 voters

Individual

Hank

  • OP
  • Balanced
  • UP

0 voters

Cabot

  • OP
  • Balanced
  • UP

0 voters

Sunny

  • OP
  • Balanced
  • UP

0 voters


So who is the best or worst of these three?

Thanks,

Index Team :sunny:


The Index: Metabase History[Patch 1.0 - Patch 8.0]
#2

A lot of this stuff is tricky to answer for me, because its so contextual. GENERALLY speaking, I find sunny the strongest support- But depending on the comp, and more importantly, the monster, I find hank better. Cabot is great- But hes really on suitable in very specific comps to me (Laz being the biggest winner here). In the right comp, i feel cabot is amazingly balanced. In the wrong comp, i feel cabot is on the underpowered side.

Etc and etc.


#3

Always assume characters are working with their optimal comp but the monster could still be any monster.


#4

Fixed error in title.


#5

Hank

Personally, I find Hank to be balanced… without Capacity

Bar Kraken, Capacity Hank can do to much work with the right comp.
These comps include Slim+Hank, Val+Hank, and Caira+Hank.

For Hank comps to win, all it takes is one successful cloak that saves Hank and enough damage will come through from the assaults.

With capacity, I think Hank is near balanced when facing a Kraken, but Capacity doesn’t grant Hank a shield, so he is still the first target for a Kraken and they can still use ridiculous combos to down Hank.

Sunny

I think Sunny is perfectly balanced in most situations.
The Val+Sunny+Griffin comp is too powerful still, but I don’t know what can be done.

Val+Sunny and Emet+Sunny are the comps that I believe to be optimal Sunny comps.

Sunny brings a lot to the table but I don’t think any of it is too much. She’s the jack of all trades but the master of none how she was designed to be.

With one huge exception. Goliath.
He just doesn’t have the correct abilities to deal with Sunny. Especially with a Hard CC trapper paired with Sunny.

I used to think Behemoth was in the same boat as Goliath, maybe he is on PC, but tongue grab is not a weak as I had perceived, and reliably wastes JPB. I still think Sunny is too strong against Behemoth but she is no where near the level of pain in the ass for Behemoth than she is for Goliath.

I think the best thing for Sunny would be to lower the drone arm time to 2 seconds, increase it’s health a LOT, increase the threshold of capacity needed to start shielding by a smidge, and increase capacity, but then make the JPB a booster and not an extra jetpack by increasing the thrust provided to 150 from 40 but make the JPB use the target’s jetpack capacity. Also, increase the mininuke damage to like 200. But that is just my thoughts.

Cabot

Cabot is the essence of balance when it comes to Supports imo. The ONLY reason why Cabot is underpowered is FT3. Monster that flee and mitigate undermine everything about Cabot. Then they crush the shieldless team at Stage 3.
If the monster plays the game as it is meant, however, Cabot is perfect(with the right comp).

Cabot comps include Rogue+Cabot, Laz+Cabot+WLM, Emet+Cabot+WLM.

The thing is, I think Cabot might be relying to much on WLM. He really can only work effectively without WLM in a Rogue comp. Cabot appreciates the guaranteed S1 dome from Dasiy a lot, and of course, the damage.

In the right comp however, Cabot is balanced against Goliath, Wraith, and Gorgon. He might be too strong against Behemoth.

Kraken takes apart Cabot too easily. It can be done, I’ve done it multiple times, but even a S1 Kraken can get downs on the trapper if the cloak comes in too late.


#6

These changes are EXACTLY what I want too. For the jetpack booster I love the idea of boosting your actual jetpack and not giving extra fuel. However 150 is a little high for bonus thrust, I say 100 is good. For mini-nuke the damage is perfect at 175, but revert the radius Nerf and the projectile speed buff. I liked it more at 40mps and not 80mps. Shield drone change is exactly what I ask for in my old sunny thread. I hope TRS reads this! :heart_eyes:


#7

Hank is the strongest support

Hank - slim best comp
Hank - val / caira is good comp

Sunny is somewhat balanced … little nerfs would be good

she works pretty well with Val

Cabot is balanced . very powerful with rogue val - WLM comp


#8

I typically run Hank myself, and out of the three find him to be the most reliable to use in the most broad spectrum of situations. Like all hunters, he takes that fine tuning in your style to play, but it’s relatively easy to get the gist of him down. I feel Hank’s pretty good the way he is, and as a monster playing against one that knows the game, he indisputably is your highest value target.

Cabot would be my preferred support to run, but he’s extremely situational right now. FT3 kills his primary offering to the team, though with the right comps and good coordination, he’s a pseudo-secondary trapper, and on the right maps is perfect for keeping a monster from chipping the relay with the railgun. Of the issues I personally have with him, however…
-The Damage Amp (assuming good assault coordination) drains stupidly fast, even with capacity. Depending on the Assault in question, it’s a mixed bag, but overall the amount of spike damage while the amp’s up just feels kinda meh.
-The Railgun penetration is equally as meh. I get that the idea wasn’t for Cabot to be able to dust the monster and punch through half the map to chip, but there’s some dome’s with cover that has surprisingly defeated my wall-bangs, with my primary response to the lack of a hit given the material being quiet disappointment.
-Dust Tags I’m relatively fine with, though possibly a faster deploy time might be a nice thing. I know I’ve popped a few off where a particularly bursty-traversal like the Gorgon’s has carried the monster clear out of my tag in the lag between my call-in and the actual drop, when fellow waypoints put it well inside the radius.

Sunny’s a mixed bag for me. The Drone’s nice, the Jetpack Booster is a lifesaver, and the Nuke Launcher is sublime. To me, though, she feels really tied to particular terrain. A Sunny on flat ground is nowhere near the headache of a Sunny that’s above me, on another raised platform that the one currently housing the drone. The reduced capacity means I can burst through her shielding better than Hank, but if I want to stop the source of it, I still have to either bust it via ability or worse, multiple melees, or just axe her head off before the medic, most likely getting roasted due to chasing the most slippery of the hunters. And unlike Hank, this one can benefit from it’s own shield. Overall, she’s got a “balanced” vibe, but in the sense of just how easy it is to flop back and forth across a small valley to maintain a Drone presence, she tends to feel slightly on the stronger side, especially for Monsters that don’t have an easy method to either scale the wall or an ability to burn that doesn’t stall the application of combos.


#9

Goliath can deal with sunny. It’s wraith that rides the struggle bus here.


#10

I just think that Wraith struggles overall, but doesn’t struggle any more or less against Sunny compared to other Supports.
If abduction wasn’t as bugged and Wraith was a bit faster on the chase than she’d be fine vs Sunny imo.


#11

Wraith can easily beat any non shield support. Hank is a challenge. However, sunny is just really hard for a wraith.


#12

I laugh at how the “strongest” support is also considered “the most balanced”. Pretty sure this “most balanced” thing isn’t something that is relevant. The first poll already indicates who is considered the strongest and thus has the biggest potential to be overpowered.

The thing that also makes me giggle is how Cabot is considered balanced and underpowered. I’m more concerned as to why people think he’s underpowered, instead of whether or not he is underpowered. See, if he’s considered UP because he doesn’t shield well enough, that wouldn’t be a valid reason. The main issue that Cabot has is that he relies on the assault player to be reliable and good. People have grown dependent on shields too much for him to be fully appreciated for who he is.

And a closing thing… The polls can’t be considered valid, because there’s two support characters missing that could contribute quite a bit to the results of this. For instance is Cabot weaker than Bucket, or is Cabot weaker than Kala? If he’s not weaker than either of these, why aren’t they mentioned? Personally I’d rather see a Cabot player than a Bucket player.


#13

There is no way that Hank is the strongest of these Supports, unless you’re looking at a hardcore fuck-face that spams the goddamned shield at Val, who’s too busy healing her teammates to notice my frustration as I spin around the map as a Gorgon.

Anyway, I find Sunny to be the most OP of the Supports, primarily because of her damage output and the Jet-Pack boosts that she provides. I know the Jet-Pack boost is often ignored by noobs, but asides from noobs, let’s say this Sunny is a good player and uses all of her abilities equally. If the Monster is targeting the Medic, she can use it and the Medic will get away, easy. I have done this to so many people that it’s laughable at this point.

Also, as the Last Hunter Standing, the huge damage bonus does a lot. I know it was designed to, but Sunny does crazy damage, especially for a Support. Hank is at least counter-able, because he can’t shield himself as the last Hunter Standing, and his gun, while it does shred, doesn’t rip off huge portions of health and shields all at one time. A huge disadvantage.

Orbital Strike can easily be avoided if you’re smart enough. So basically, unless you’re spamming the Shield on your Medic, which is usually Val, I wouldn’t be too concerned if Hank is in the Match. Sunny, on the other hand, only if she is a good player, who uses all of her abilities, I often become quite skittish of and target her first-thing in a Match.

As for Cabot… I’m not sure why he is considered “under-powered” in this thread, I get along fine with him, especially in Arena, when I can keep an eye on all of the Monster’s movements by Dust-tagging him, forcing him to engage with the Hunters and resulting with us winning. So really, all of these Supports have their ups and downs.


#14

Cabot is considered UP against stage 3 monster

In stage 1 he is really powerful . He can melt monster health very fast

In stage 2 / he is balanced

About sunny jet booster … I don’t think it’s OP at all .


#15

As a Goliath player it’s definitely still sunny. Her utility is just too strong. Namely that damn shield that is constantly spammed and recharges far too fast to realistically allow you to burst through. If you’re not attacking sunny then even if you do get some good hits in they will soon be whisked to safety. Crazy.

No, he can’t.


#16

Attack sunny and confuse the drone with fire breath.


#17

If only it was that easy :slight_smile:


#18

ring around the rosie pockets full of pollies ashes ashes the gorgon has burned!

I am so sorry


#19

OMG, no sorry needed.

That made my day. C:


#20

C: I am happy to help!