In-Depth Wraith Discussion/Debate


#1

Before I get started, we’re going to abide by some rules for this discussion or debate, break them, and your argument can be considered invalid:


THE RULES:


  1. Name calling. ‘Coward’, ‘noob’, ‘rookie’, insert general swears. Just don’t, this detracts from your argument, and nobody don’t care if you think that someone is just ‘bad’.
  2. Team composition. This may sound weird to some, but face up to facts, this is a blind pick mode. The hunters can’t know what they’re getting into, and shouldn’t be gimped for a ten minute match because of this. ‘Just play X’ is not valid because people don’t want to play the same thing over and over(usually). Nobody should be forced to play something just because they’re guaranteed to lose otherwise, this is the recipe of the downfall to any competitive game.
  3. Consider both sides to each argument. There must be reasons people are shouting out it’s underpowered or overpowered. You don’t know everything.
  4. Viability is key. If you suggest a change, nerf, buff, or strategy, viability is king. If you just tell people to jetpack out of supernova, you have to also consider how little jetpack fuel there is. The trapper might have just had to use all of their boosts to dome it, what then?
  5. In depth discussion. “It’s mobility is too strong” “It’s decoy is too strong” “Abduct doesn’t do enough damage” are not discussion points, they’re complaints. The same goes for “Just learn to play”

Still here? Good, lets begin.

My stance on the Wraith is that it is too strong, and encourages a bad playstyle for her, turning her from the sneaky assassin into the slippery glutton. I’ll define what I think of each of these as just for future reference.

The sneaky assassin keeps the hunters on edge, while it looks for a possible pick or grab on the hunters, struggling when it cannot isolate it’s targets, but quickly rending individual targets to pieces. She must hit and run, and once caught out due to their own mistake or the hunter’s ingenuity, must pay in blood for that mistake. This allows for good players to terrify the hunters, while immediately feeling that same fear upon being caught. She must pick her targets carefully, or else bring the dome right to her, or worse, the assault which frankly cares not for her nonsense.

The slippery glutton keeps the hunters far behind them, and bored, with no real motivation to actually interact with the hunters until they are entirely assured victory. They suck down meat after meat, pressing the decoy the moment a hunter is even slightly close to seeing them, letting it’s no-risk damage and knockback force the hunters to slow down, and likely lose sight of it as it moves onto it’s next meal. The hunters need not remain alert, or even attack the monster, as it will come to them at stage three anyways, and they feel powerless to get any significant damage in until it wants to fight.

My suggested changes:

Mobility: This is actually mostly fine. She needs to be a mobile monster in order to be the assassin she is supposed to be, but, I think a small range nerf might not be entirely unwarranted. Only 5 or so meters per dash at max though, adding time between each dash would make her feel too slow. 5 meters per each dash would remove her ability to overcome a range advantage on the dome though (currently some people have demonstrated that Wraith can be behind the trapper throwing the dome, and escape the dome to the front). This would need to be the gentlest of changes though, 5 meters may in fact be too much, as she really needs this mobility.

Warp Blast: I think that this ability should be encouraged to be used for disruption of a team to easier single out a juicy target. A small knockback increase could do this, but I’m not sure what the number for it would be.

Abduction: I really want to love the Wraith because of the possibilities of this ability. Pick out my individual target of choice, and drag them away from the team? Yes please. Be absolutely terrified as medic or trapper that I could be singled out if I’m not careful? Sounds like an assassin to me. However, I notice some Wraith’s just dont even skill it because it doesn’t reward the catch enough, or conflicts slightly with the ‘all man all ham’ mentality. A slight hitbox buff wouldn’t be amiss, only to the point where the closing animation of the claws actually catches someone. I’ve had Wraith’s stop awkwardly in front of me, see their claws clip through me, and then move away without anything in tow. That sounds more embarrassing than rewarding, just like the claw machines you can sink quarters into for hours and not get anything for it.

Decoy: Oh boy, this ability. I really wish that this ability just didn’t give so much flat power. It’s escape, it’s free damage, it’s free knockback, it’s too much. If it kept the knockback but lost the damage I think it’d be fine. Or if it could be killed (250-500 damage maybe?), revealing the real Wraith when it died. Losing a bit of mobility wouldn’t be such a bad tradeoff for it either, popping the decoy requiring the Wraith to only stealth move would make sense. A bit better feedback for a hunter shooting the cloaked wraith could be cool too, maybe higher interval on the flashes in visibility for the Wraith you’re shooting? I like the supernova decoy tactic, that’s cool, and I don’t want to see the Wraith lose the ability to create a big flashy fighter like that that is still a bit of a threat. Maybe it only has damage when supernova is used in conjunction with it?

Alternatively, a sort of ‘passive’ behavior on the AI for the Wraith. You see it decoy, and you know that the decoy is walking towards you. How about as a reward for good trigger discipline, the decoy doesn’t attack until you shoot it, and only attacks players who shoot it? However, do not remove the flashing on the decoy like such, that way a ballsy Wraith player can duck out of sight, turn around, and start walking into the hunters. If they play it off well enough, they could completely fool the hunters into thinking that was the decoy, and perform probably one of the best sleight of hands ever.

Supernova: The change I’d like to see here would increase Wraiths assassin power, but decrease it’s ‘smack your whole team at once’ power. Currently, the radius of the attacks in the supernova are huge. Even standing behind it will let it hit you. Despite hitting anyone relatively even close to it though, it hurts so much that it can tear through two shields on assault and then rip his health to shreds after. Not only that, but it can do it to anyone close to him all at once. However, what would be a healthy change is to reward players for isolating targets in the supernova. How about a isolation damage bonus for when the Wraith is only hitting a single target, with the damage being reduced and spread out for every hunter each swing hits. This could allow a team to coordinate to all take damage in order to save one hunter, while still not completely invalidating the supernova, because everyone’s lower on their health now, not just one person.

The hunters are strongest as a single team, reward the Wraith for isolating a target away from the safety of the pack.

Debate, discuss, approve, disapprove, and more below. Just follow those rules, this is to be constructive, something TRS can actually use, not just complaints and name-calling or bashing.


#2

My stance there are about 1 Million topics on this already that i wish more people would post in.


#3

Abduction is just really clunky feeling right now… you can have a hunter dead in the center of the target but the smallest little bush or rock just stops you. If it was more reliable I’d probably use it though


#4

I just had to quit playing the game because I was getting soo pissed about Wraith. Played the same Wraith guy 2 times in a row and all he did was still decoy spam. Also yes I playing Abe and had him darted 80% of the match. Even darted most the time I could only get him domed twice and both times all he did was decoy spam and hid. With wraiths movement we were never able to do any real damage. Then at the end of the 2nd when we were defending the relay the decoy went through 3 mines and downed 2 of us. At that point I said fuck it and turned it of.

Can Wraith be beat yes, but most Wraith players are boring as fuck to fight. Supernova bubble is too big, and decoy to me is just bullshit all around. Decoy shouldn’t do that much damage because even when you dodge it, it still hits you about half the time, and the fact that your ONLY defence against decoy is to get out of the way seems like bad design. Especially with how heatseeking the decoy AI is. Also I think if you tag the decoy with a dart or dust it should transfer back to the real one when the decoy runs out.

For now every time I see Wraith I’m just going to leave the game until it’s fixed


#5

I feel everything has already been said.

Wraith is too fast and breaks many mechanics of Evolve, from Cabot/Val/Abe tag purging with decoy, escaping domes with ease and requireing a certain group of hunters every game to just stand a chance, in a blind pick enviroment no less. I havent really seen a significant retort to all these points, (you suck is not a retort).

The worst part is that she is obviously designed around this play, with her low armor count and high mobility, there really isn’t any different way to play wraith other then stage three cancer fight at relay. She needs changes.


#6

Thank you for a constructive thread about wraith. That being said I think there is already alot of threads on Wraith already. I like the format you have here but the clutter on the front page is kinda much just on Wraith related topics.


#7

I wanted to try to make a more organized thread, because too many of them don’t actually say anything other than ‘fix it’


#8

Another guy and I believe decoy should be similar to Parnell’s SS and it should drop the wraiths armor. She farms in the middle of combat anyways, so using it should drop of a chunk of armor adding more strategy to its use. Supernova could even fit under this catagory as well.

Also think her cloak should be more like predators cloak while in movement and if she stands still it completely goes invisible. Now she would have to pay attention yo the battlefield before moving in risk of being noticed.


#9

Mobility: I agree that the mobility should be reduced to some degree and I like the 5 meter reduction idea. I’ve thrown a dome while being directly next to the Wraith and it’s gotten out before the dome landed. TRS has already said they are removing the sound indication when the dome is thrown which will help to some degree.

Decoy: I feel like the hunters should be able to remove the decoy with damage as well. I think 1400-1500 would be a more appropriate number since the decoy is really useful for removing Markov’s mines, and to lose it after one mine wouldn’t be fair to the Wraith. In it’s current state it’s too easy for the runner Wraith to minimize damage taken while domed and pursue the 22-24 minute match with minimal combat. I also like the idea of losing a bar of armor when using decoy. It’s relatively easy to feed while decoyed so this wouldn’t detract too much from the ability but makes the use of decoy more of a risk/reward decision. If the Wraith has no armor using decoy shouldn’t remove health though, as that would make the penalty outweigh the benefit since there’s no guarantee the decoy will do anything useful other than potentially hide the Monster for a few seconds.

Wraith isn’t OP, it just promotes running a little too much. If the other two monsters try to run constantly, it’s easier to catch them and punish them for it. A few tweaks would make actual combat more likely during Wraith matches which benefits everyone (aside from the Runner Wraith.)


#10

Mobility: I disagree with the idea of reducing the distance on the traversal because I think it would affect combat too much if it were balanced for chase purposes. I have heard some suggest that a half second cooldown should be put on the traversal ability, which I think is the best suggestion. It would ensure that a wrath caught “with its pants down” by a trapper cannot spacebar mash out of a dome, but it will not ruin the utility of the traversal in combat.

Decoy: I think this ability works fairly well, but the decoy needs a Health value. There are many times when a team will know that they are looking at decoy, but can’t necessarily avoid it. Giving the decoy a health value would punish wraiths using the ability in very obvious situations where they are not deceiving anyone. The other option would be to increase the cooldown on the decoy, but that could very easily be far too severe and ruin the wraith gameplay.

Overall, I would say that two key things need to be addressed.

  1. The wraith should not be able to escape a dome thrown right in its face. If the trapper gets right on top of the wraith, the wraith should be punished for allowing that to happen.
  2. The wraith needs to be slightly easier to keep up with in a dome. I have done tests in completely random random lobbies where I have skilled into level 3 decoy at stage 1 and sat in the spawn. Then I just try to survive in a “dome sized” area for as long as possible without eating anything or running. The results thus far have always been surviving for what would be about 3-4 full dome durations, and in some cases I could have continued the evasion endlessly against the team. It is also worth noting that in each case the decoy did moderate damage to the hunters in the process, and could have potentially downed 1 or more if I had continued the test.

#11

There is only one flaw in your Sneaky Assassin/Slippery Glutton comparison as I see it. I don’t see how you can have the Sneaky Assassin archetype without running into Slippery Gluttons. The only thing I see that separates them is player choice. You can’t punish a Runner Wraith just like you can’t punish a Runner Goliath via game mechanics. You can however punish them through player interaction. If Runner Wraiths start to get thrashed at lvl 3 after a whole match of running, well then guess what, they have to adopt a playstyle more akin to your Sneaky Assassin style. The only question is can the players do this? I believe the answer is yes and here is my proof. Warning: Shameless Youtube plug.

Now I’m sure people will argue that the player base won’t be able to do this and I respectfully disagree. The only reason it is working so far is that BS Pre-Purchase unlock. Wraith is supposed to be the final unlock, which means you’ll usually be at a higher level when you unlock her. Anyone who played monster can attest to how much faster you gain XP as the monster rather than the hunters. Generally speaking you would have 2 players at the same level and if one played exclusively monster and one hunter then you would expect the hunter player to have played significantly more matches. Because so many people have her unlocked at a lower level, they play against lower leveled hunters who haven’t developed the skill set to counter her playstyle. To make things worse, most people who Pre-Purchased also played the Beta, giving them much immeasurable experience.

TR;DR

The Pre-Purchase unlock screwed up the curve so Wraiths appear against lower level hunters. Once they get into higher level matches these players will get shredded.


#12

I totally agree and also think that if you see the wraith pop a decoy you can shoot the real wraith showing it and destroying the decoy. You shouldn’t be able to pop a decoy in a fight but instead use it to make the hunter go the wrong way while they are chasing you.


#13

I feel like I can confirm this pretty well. I’ve been playing the Monster and Wraith pretty much exclusively since I unlocked her. I played beta and pre-ordered, but something went wrong and I’m still having to unlock everything manually. But I still got her really quickly because I got pretty darn good with Kraken (at least, I think I did XD) in the last beta, so I knocked the last set of unlocks out fast and have been playing Wraith ever since. When I was playing her at lower levels, I was destroying people with relative ease, and it almost convinced me that she was actually overpowered. But now that I’m lvl 30 or so, and playing against more experienced hunters, the matches are a lot more tense. When I run now, I run because I screwed up, got caught, and now need space to breathe, not because I know they can’t catch me.


#14

This a trillion times.

Playing wraith against lvl 1-20 players results in an easy victory and me feeling bad for the hunters. Playing wraith against 25-40 players results in a VERY close fight 90% of the time with about a 50/50 win/loss.

The early unlock for pre-orders is to blame for the ‘OP’ screams. Any combination containing 2 or more of Laz, Cabot, Abe, or Parnell means the wraith is going to have to work very hard for her win. The problem is that you’ll almost NEVER see more than 1 of those 4 hunters at a time below 25.