Improve stage 3 monsters, thoughts?


#1

What’s the consensus from other monster players on stage 3. I feel stage 2 is actually arguably preferable to remain at, as you can pick where fights occur and hunt/ambush the hunters. Some of the relay locations are obnoxious for hunter roaching and such, it’s a defensible location for them.

Reaching stage 3 should be a huge reward, especially a now that it’s so difficult to do against competent hunters with their big solo queue buffs (or premades which are even worse to deal with).

It shouldn’t even be a question that you want to hit stage 3.

Thoughts?


#2

Stage 3 used to be a lot more powerful, but monsters just FT3’d to reach it and that lead to less enjoyable matches.

But with all the changes in Stage 2 to remove FT3 it could work.


#3

Us hunters need those defensive relays to even have a hope to survive against a stage 3 monster player. A stage 3 Goliath is a beast that takes an age to kill and the only chance we have is defensive positions and roaching. Even then at stage 3 the odds are still with the competent stage 3 monster.


#4

If you let a monster get to stage 3 without much damage that’s on you as hunters. Again I have to say, with the solo queue buffs hunters get, mainly the speed, it’s harder than ever to hit stage 3, much less to do so in good shape.

It shouldn’t even be a question of whether to stage up to 3 or not. If the hunters have a relay abusing character like EMET it becomes even worse.


#5

He does have a point though. The stage 3 nerfs were only introduced when the dome only lasted 60 seconds long and the monster had no reason to fight other than for the chance to get strikes. But now, the time is working against a FT3 monster. Also sneak juking is less likely to happen. So maybe. Buff the stage 3 monster just a tad…


#6

My feeling is that Stage 3 is strong as hell when the hunters have done only the bare minimum, but too weak when the hunters have done well through the match. I guess on some level this means that it’s pretty balanced.

Evolve is a game of trading your resources for the other teams, and so it’s natural that if the hunters outplay the monster at stage 1 and 2 that Stage 3 is basically little more than a hail mary stage, where you’ve been given a lifeline to maybe dig it out of the dirt because you’ve done well enough to get the evolution, but realistically you’d be coming from behind.

Think of Evolve like an (amateur) boxing match, one where the hunters have out boxed you at round 1 and 2. I mean, they beat you to a pulp in round 1 but somehow you stayed standing, and despite good efforts in round 2 they still got much better hits in. In boxing terms you’d have to go for the TKO in round 3 to be able to win, there’s nothing else for it, double or nothing.

The pertinent question about Stage 3 strength is how it is when as a monster you’ve had a tough fight, taking good damage, but also dealing out several strikes. In my opinion, and from my experience, reaching Stage 3 (after evolve) with half your health, up against a team with 3 or 4 strikes, is a pretty fair fight that probably swings just in favour of the monster depending on who has those strikes.

IMO Stage 3 shouldn’t be “Well, I reached stage 3, I win”, it should be “I’m stage 3 now, there’s no more messing around, you fight me, or I destroy the relay”. Hunters survive for long periods during a match because they can split and they can retreat to wait for reinforcements… I feel monsters need to realise that this is their strength at stage 3, making the hunters either remain fighting you against all odds so you can’t kill the relay, or retreating and letting you kill the relay. It puts hunters on the spot like at no point else in the match.


#7

I’d agree, right now things feel pretty good. The game shouldn’t be a case of one side getting a free win, the three stages are there to change how favored the fight is - if the hunters find you stage 1 you probably lose health but might get a strike out of it; while stage 3 you’re almost guaranteed a strike on whoever you focus so it becomes a final desperate struggle to kill them before they kill you. There are intricacies of course, but it’s nowhere near as bad as it used to be. Ask any vet what it was like being FORCED to go S3 on Aviary (which no good monster player wanted to do if they could at all avoid it). It was a horrifying experience, especially as Goliath or Bob.


#8

Only Goliaths stage 3 strong. They must buff Wraith, Kelder and Gorgon again.


#9

When it’s debatably just as or more effective to remain stage 2, there is a problem. I despise staging to 3 and dealing with the roach heaven relays on some stages, walking into a fight on their terms, dealing with their stall tactics etc.


#10

I find I win more often at stage 2 than stage 3. The 2 extra points, more base HP doesn’t make up that you are a bigger target and the Hunters have the advantage in setting up a great position (Which means they have full HP, Deployables and Jetpack before you even start) as well as not ever having to throw the dome unless you retreat/they hit your soft chewy center. I never go to stage 3 unless I need the HP, and even then I dislike it immensely because it takes away too many tools of the Monster and doesn’t give enough back.


#11

Fighting into an entrenched position is more often than not to hard. I am constantly throwing rocks and waiting until one hits before engaging… But thats just to get a bit of a head start.


#12

-Every single person is getting to stage 3 now because it takes like 6 minutes,with 4 domes in between

-Monsters are already very powerful at stage 3 because they have surely got strikes,which means 2 abilities is instant kill on everyone,and possibly no respawn

-They can abuse the “kill someone,retreat,regen armor,return” tactic at relays

-Monsters are getting buffed 4 times in a row,while hunters are getting nerfed,so anyone who says the solo queue buffs affect the game a lot is just a biased victim of placebo


#13

I suggested else where that another evolve point be available at stage 3, for a total of 10… This would guarantee that at stage 3 the monster had at least 1 point in all abilities, and by having all abilities would be completely evolved…

Stage 1 - 4 points
Stage 2 - 3 points
Stage 3 - 3 points


#14

I think a best stage 3 monster is to add an increase of DR automatically when monster health left like 1 bar to make it harder to die… kinda like enrage mode before the monster about to die


#15

Huh what lol? These are 2 separate issues, don’t mix them together.

I think the biggest drawback of going Stage 3 is you concede control over where the fight takes place. That also means you lose the element of surprise, and give hunters the time to set up the fight (full jetpack, proper positioning). It was pretty much the same in OG Evolve.

That said, its a trade-off at the end of the day. Staging up to 3 gives back health that you can’t normally recover, and the additional skill points may just be what you need to close the deal.

Whether or not they need to be improved, im on the fence for this one :hugging:


#16

An engage mechanic would be interesting, but one bar of health is nothing really so you’d have to go for a bit more than that or make the DR crazy, and at that point you’d be better off just adding more health or a regen threshold (e.g. Monster regens to 1/5 health slowly). I’d be more interested in some sort of adrenaline rush mechanic where monsters with no armor and some health damage got faster and /or hit harder. Would be tricky to balance though.


#17

Maybe they can be variant

Goliath, m.goliath crazy DR at 1 bar health
Kraken/kelder - increase transversal speed
Wraith - super speed dmg
Bob - increase dmg

Would be nice if this is implemented for like enrage mode


#18

Of all the monsters I’d say the idea suits Bob the most, and the Trello board says they’re working on an unannounced passive for him. Who knows, maybe TRS had the same idea.


#19

Don’t go directly to the relay. The hunters are waiting for you so get a wildlife buff on your way. Also toss a rock at them before you engage because they likely have deployables around them.


#20

IMO people focus on Stage 3 a little too hard. If the hunters are besting you through the match then your stage 3 fight is going to be tough, regardless of where you fight. And you know, if you’re besting the hunters then your stage 3 fight is going to be a breeze… I mean… even if you somehow manage to let them respawn you probably don’t need to do more than duck out for 10 seconds to get some nearby meats for armour and then murder them kind of a breeze.

If games are balanced and it is felt that the hunters are getting it a little too easy in the stage 3 fights (and I’m not convinced of this, but willing to consider the alternative!) then I don’t think it’s stage 3 that needs work. Adding more to stage 3 will just take all the fight out of hunters that are struggling, it’ll be “GG” as soon as the monster hits stage 3, why even bother to fight? And it’ll also needlessly buff monsters that have otherwise been underperforming.

I’d much rather see consideration of ideas for how to give monsters more opportunity to weaken the hunters at the end of stage 2, and tbh I feel that the wildlife buff system is the answer. Monsters still control the buffs more than the hunters do, perhaps unfairly so, and perhaps a little bit more to work with around the 6-7 minute mark would open up the game to the possibility of a monster being able to test an equally matched but good hunter team and break some of the deadlock.

This way you don’t mess with a generic stage 3 that is already strong at low levels, you give hunters (in theory) some counterplay to a monster strengthening itself while in turn also giving the monster a bit more diversity of how to approach the end game, and if the monster ends up working with the buff system they get that slight but temporary boost that people are essentially asking for here anyway.

There are still issues with this approach, but I feel that making it part of the dynamics of the hunt, of the territorial control of the game, makes for a more interesting higher level game… moreso than just buffing monsters because relay fights can be a bit tough against equal opponents!