I remember playing this in beta and leaving this feedback


#1

I can’t actually access the topic any longer, don’t know why. As notification suggest I called it “This game has one giant obvious problem with pacing”. I suspect it is because the beta is over. But I said back then that this issue is a problem and is going to affect my purchase decision if it isn’t improved. The feedback was very poorly received by the community, who claimed I was in for a wrong game and should go play something else, which at the time I thought was true (and maybe still is), though seeing by what my friends tell me(those that bought the game), I was certainly not the only one to think that way.

As I can see from this video, which lays exactly identical primary criticism to the topic I wrote based on the beta back in November, the issue with pacing was not resolved in the main gamemode (although he says it is better in the Campaign). Somehow I doubt that TB is completely wrong and this is not “the correct game” to leverage that kind of criticisms at, but that’s not the point. The point is that since you have this “promise” or something, that says you’ll listen to the playerbase, you might improve the game post-release. And this is one area that, if improved, will make be buy it immediately.

Up to you to judge whether there will be many like me, but one thing you can extract from this situation is that a bunch of people telling me to shut up and find another game to play on my topic does not necessarily represent the opinion of a generic player. It may be a case of game communicating something wrong or I may have indeed pointed out a serious flaw of pacing back then. Anything is possible.

For those that don’t know and don’t wanna watch a 36 minute long video: the whole problem is with the fact that hunters don’t have enough PvE activities/side objectives to do, which results in the main mode being this giant boring bunnyhop chase without any other activities and tactics to participate in. I previous suggested putting more emphasis on the PvE monsters. TB suggests dynamic objectives like speeding up player respawn. Ultimately there are plenty solutions, but the issue is one: game becomes very boring outside of arena fights, especially for the hunters, because there is only one path to victory on both ends.

Will I get more “Go away, we like our bunnyhopping!” on this one? We shall see.


#2

This isn’t the game you’re looking for. And that’s fine.


#3

^Pretty much what this guy said. It just doesn’t sound like your sort of game. I really enjoy the hunting aspect along with the fighting.


#4

i should have stopped reading when it took you three paragraphs to get to your point. i eventually stopped reading when you said “not enough pve activities”.

evolve is not meant for you.


#5

Well ok, you basically disagree with my criticism, which means you see value in the things that I criticized. There is no point in writing it, because like I said, TB repeats them identically, all his criticisms are exactly the same, so you can just watch his video. So what I want to know is an explanation, which both you and everyone else who I have interacted with on these forums have failed to provide so far.

Why do you think running around chasing the monster for ages without a single other options that may advance the match on both ends is good?

Why do you think getting killed as a monster in 5 minutes to a skilled team on VoiP without having a single other option to advance or prevent this scenario is good?

Why do you think inability to enjoy the game in public matches is good? Well this is luck-dependent, in theory it’s possible to be matched up with 3 other competent hunters and 1 competent monster for a good match, but for people with critically bad luck, such as myself it was impossible. I played that game the entire weekend and only good games I had were ones with my clan on the team (and only when the monster was competent, which was like 20% of the time).

Why do you ultimately think that forcing a single objective and a single way to achieve it is a good thing? How does it enhance the game, and why do you think the situations TB describes in the video are not in fact boring waste of time? This is what I want to know.

TB has obviously played more games than any of us and the fact that he leverages an absolutely identical criticism to one I had ages ago speaks either for a communication problem between the game and the players or a real issue.


#6

why do you think changing evolve into a game its not meant to be is a good thing? every scenario you described is inherently what makes evolve such a great competitive game.


#7

well this was advertised as a competitive game (i do not see this right now but it is beside the point) so i really do not want to engage in some pve activitys when i play a competitive multiplayer title. This is a Multiplayer title. There is wildlife, sure. But it is not really a threat, it is merely there for game mechanic reasons.

You play versus another human individual and have to read their mind in order to win (well, at least that should be the case). Try to outsmart your opponent, then outplay him/her/them.

PVE is highly boring, most of the time it is either doing the same stuff over and over again (dota i look at you) and just distracts from the core game: Playing another individual who come up with different mindsets and tricks.


#8

It seems that you are primarily/only referring to Hunt, so I will only respond in relation to Hunt (I haven’t played any other game mode yet anyway)

First of all, not true. One thing that exists in this game are wildlife buffs, which can greatly impact both sides. If my team can’t find the monster, we might opt to look for a buff instead. Or if we come across a buff that would be good for the monster such as Health Regen, we kill it so that the monster can’t have it. For the monster, if you know you’re going to have to take a Stage 1 fight, having a buff is helpful. Or grabbing it before a Power Relay fight if your health is low can give you a good boost.

Secondly, the way you word this “chasing the monster around for ages” makes it sound like you’re bored. How is that boring? You’re constantly moving, constantly trying to keep track of the monster so you can cut it off and trap it. I don’t feel that I need anything else to do. Part of this game is a race against the clock. For the hunters, it’s killing the monster before it gets to Stage 3. For the monster, it’s getting powerful enough that you can kill all of the hunters or destroy the Power Relay before the clock runs out. That’s why the pace of the game is fast. It’s because both sides have objectives and time restraints.

If you get caught in 5 minutes, it may be a skilled team but it’s also an unskilled monster. I’ve had games where my team and I have won in under 2 minutes. But as a monster, your job is to not let that happen, or to be ready when it does. A skilled monster can avoid taking a lot of damage in a dome even at stage 1, or can at least get a down penalty or two while only sacrificing a little bit of health. And I’m not talking about Wraith, even a Goliath can largely escape damage if they play correctly.

I enjoy every match I play, save for a great many of them against Wraith who is still largely obnoxious to me. If you don’t like who you match with, try finding friends to play with.

A lot of games have single objectives. Take DotA for example. In the end, the ONLY objective is: destroy the enemy team’s ancient. L4D versus mode was all about either the survivors making it to the end of the level, or the zombies killing them before they do.

What matters is that the objective is challenging. It’s challenging to find, trap, and kill a skilled monster. It’s challenging to fight and kill a skilled team of hunters. But it’s rewarding for both sides, and it’s fun.

I remember your other thread. I’m just not interested in slowing down this game. If you want PVE, this is simply the wrong game. This game, similar to L4D has been engineered with the sole purpose and intent of being a competitive multiplayer PVP game. As both monster and hunter, you are always on the move, always trying to ready yourself for the next fight. Aside from my team stopping to deny the monster a wildlife buff or take one such as damage bonus for ourselves, it’s a race. That’s how we play.


#9

This is another absolutely hollow reply with no explanations. Opinions are only as valid as the reasons for having them, if you can’t tell me your reasons, then I will have to dismiss your opinion, sorry.

Ok there is some merit to this post.
What I actually had in mind (and what I suggested back in autumn) is not PvE focus, but rather a different PvP objective. You other than kill each other. So that both hunters and the monster have something else to do other than eat/chase.

For example if the hunters can’t find a monster they could try to reinforce the relay with some shield generator located elsewhere on the map, that has to be powered by a battery dropped randomly on the map. The inactive generator could be destroyed and when active the monster has to destroy it before it can damage the relay. Battery can also be destroyed. The hunters will get notified when the generator or the battery are under attack and it should take some time to destroy them, so it’s a risk/reward kind of encounter which provokes a confrontation by choice, and isn’t PvE focused.

Also the monster would have to actually consider that they won’t be eating and evolving while hunting the generator, so it’s another risk/reward in it for them. Similarly if the monster succeeds at destroying the generator it could also open a door some some facility filled with chemicals which could provide a boost that would increase evolution speed and give a sizable amount of points towards the next evolution.

I don’t actually know the PvE potential of the game to even decide if I want more PvE in it or not. All I know is that I had the exact same experience back in the beta that TB describes in his video. And that the solution and the problem both revolve around the fact that there is only ONE way to victory. Evolving through eating for the monster and chasing through signs for the hunters. Everything else are just little extras to that. In Left 4 Dead we could sprint, there were map variations and above all there was AI director which made versus tactics very varied and different by adapting to the situation. Evolve doesn’t adapt.

@yume
That was a good reply, that’s something that actually helps these discussions, well done, the_bham could learn from you.

Like I said, I am not talking about slowing the game, I talking about a different way for the PvP sides to interact with each other, other than cat and mouse chase, which can end up being very boring if one side is incompetent. I don’t view this as a PvE game, but PvE objectives can be used to provoke confrontation instead if seeking it all the time. Also since people are making these comparisons: all DOTA-style games have mechanics for turning the pacing around: Jungle bosses mostly, but also increasingly difficult defence structures towards the end and increasing respawn times.


#10

yeah, but there are different game modes for that (i guess there will be more). this is basically like Deathmatch in q3. one objective, kill the opponent. i liked quake =)


#11

I’ll have to watch this video when I get time, but it sounds like we have similar views. I voiced a similar topic in the beta that talked about how boring it was to be a hunter sometimes. what I beliebe will make this so much more entertaining is giving both sides more reasons to interact. Here’s what I mean.

Right now, the only reason the monster has to engage the hunters before stage three is to possibly earn some strikes. Downsides are obvious: hunters are stronger than you early on and you will most likely lose health. Pro: hunters won’t know exactly where you are.

I suggest adding additional reasons to interact to prevent 15 minutes of running around with the occasional hit and runs. Things such as: fixing disabled turrets near the relay, reviving downed colonists to aid in battle, activating a radar station that can constantly ping an area like griphons sound spikes. Things like this. If the hunters have other objectives to help them with their final objective, it’ll give incentive to the monster player to engage earlier (which might also help with the current Wraith problems).


#12

the chase is part of the game. it takes skills to determine the pace. you want to introduce stuff that removes the skill of it, or encourages players to be more nooby and ignore the monster. or it turns the game less from a competitive game and more to an experience type game, and fuck that. i want a hardcore difficult competitive game.


#13

Your idea about the shield generator and everything doesn’t sound too bad, but I don’t think it belongs in this game mode. The design of Hunt is very punishing to both sides. A monster who is caught by a skilled hunter team early can be killed, but even if they get away with a tiny amount of health they can come back if they manage to stage up. For the hunters, if they aren’t able to trap the monster early, it’ll make for a very hard fight at the power relay. But why reward the hunters with an alternative strategy just in case they completely fail for the entire game to touch the monster player?

I think that what you’re looking for is, in essence, Evacuation mode. Over the course of 5 games, the hunters and monster compete to win for the sake of beneficial map effects so that they can ultimately win.

I don’t really want to spend my time killing AI when it’s much more fun to kill an actual player. For example, is it fun to Abduct Daisy when she’s standing still 20 yards away from the hunter team? Not so much. But it’s fun to Abduct a hunter out of the sky after making them go flying from a Warp Blast.

In DotA, you can PVE a little bit, but in the end the objective is the same. You can kill Roshan and get a second life for one of your players, but if you’re behind you will still lose the fight. If you’re playing Evolve, you can get a 35% bonus damage perk, but you’ll still lose the fight if your whole team is on a strike and the monster is stage 3 with full health.

And as far as increasingly difficult defenses, the power relay fight is probably the hardest for the monster. Why? Because it’s the easiest for the hunters to set it up. Traps, mines, positioning – all the best. Additionally, the clock is against the monster at that point, so they have to kill all of the hunters in the span of 2 minutes once they kill the first one, which is pretty difficult with invisible supports and shielded assaults.

For the hunters as well, the monster at stage 3 is obviously a bigger threat than a stage 1 monster, especially at high health.


#14

Yeah I especially like the radar idea. It would be awesome to temporarily zone the monster player so that if they enter a radar-covered area, hunters will start getting pings that the monster is in that area (not the exact location). But there should be something for the monster as well. Some reward to taking a risk to actually seek confrontation.

I think a good way to do this is to require the hunters to split up to activate the radars: say it requires 2 people pressing 2 buttons at the same time in different locations. This can give the monster a way to take out a player when they are at it, even at first stage - but it would be a risk.


#15

I enjoy the chase just as much, if not more, than the encounter with the monster. Unless it’s wraith, only because I don’t have friends who play too well and go public matches.


#16

For me, the thrill comes from getting that dome in. Evolve is like a game of Chess in that there are several skirmishes that lead to a grand victory and also in the fact that you can’t play thinking in the now, you have to play 30-60 seconds into the future, especially as a hunter. You have to know where your opponent is going even before he gets there and you have to hound him, always make him watch out for you, and make him know he isn’t safe. That is a hunter’s job until that arena comes down. At that point you prove your bark is nowhere near as scary as your bite. As the monster, there is a thrill that comes from knowing you are being hounded, that these people are here, and that they want you dead and they won’t stop until you are. You have to pull all of the stops to get away from them and show them what happens if you corner a wild animal. For me, this is the thrill of Evolve. Out the gate, no it isn’t easy. You have to learn how to spot the monster’s jukes and play mind games with him. As a monster, you got to play these mind games back and juke, trick, and be devious to win. You have to prove that you can outsmart a group of 4. Many hunters just haven’t hit the point where they look that far ahead in a match and look for the quickest way to get to where the monster currently is or was, not where he is going.


#17

How any of you lose as the monster, I have no idea.


#18

I’ve lost once as a monster on Aviary. That map is so damn flat that the hunters don’t have hardly any hurdles getting around. I juked the hunters, ran clear across the map (from one outside area to the other) and they caught me fresh out of my cocoon and wiped the floor with me. That match made me realize just how hard a decent hunter team could be


#19

It takes absolutely no skill to guess where a monster is. You see birds, you check the map and guess which way he might have gone and try and head ahead of him. Tracking is not a skill in this game. Forcing encounters (IE setting up where you want to fight and battle) that’s skill. Having secondary objectives for the hunters/monsters makes this a more relevant gaming experience. The only way anyone can attempt to set things up (in hunt) is when the monster hits stage three and you know for a fact where he’ll be.


#20

I wish Mario Galaxy had God of War-style combat… I wish Far Cry 4 had more focus on platforming and RTS elements… Ultimately, arguments to change a game you don’t like (that others do) into a different game type are kind of pointless. That’s the reason.