Hyde changes


#1

"Hyde - Making Toxic Grenade a more effective area of denial weapon while also making it less spammy. Buffing Hyde’s overall damage output.

Toxic Grenade
DPS increased by 50%
Added proximity detonation (works vs airborne Kraken now)
Reduced fire rate
Reduced lifetime by 15%"

So aside from the minigun buff, which was an obvious necessity as it was incapable of serving its intended purpose from the start, we have some changes to the toxic grenade that are intended to make it “a more effective area of denial weapon while also making it less spammy”.

Ok, so first we have a 50% buff to damage output of the grenade. This definitely supports the goal of making it more effective, can’t argue that.

Second, we have proximity detonation, that’s cool, definitely makes it more effective against elevated/flying monsters.

Third, reduced fire rate. No number for how much was given so I guess we assume it is a small change, right guys?

Fourth, we have reduced lifetime by 15%. This is fine, I mean, we buffed the dps of the cloud, only seems fair to make it last a slightly shorter period of time.

Overall: We look at the changes here and think, “looks like Hyde is getting a buff”, “hyde’s gonna be OP”, “maybe I’ll try hyde, that grenade looks sick”, etc…

Unfortunately the most significant part of these changes was omitted, the magnitude to which the cooldown of the grenade would be changed. Previously, the grenade’s cooldown was short enough to where you could have 2 clouds out together for at least 5 seconds, without even having the cooldown/recharge rate perk active. We even were able to see that the game limits you to 2 toxic clouds at any given time.

Now the cooldown is 14 seconds.

  1. Say goodbye to the damage output, a weapon used every 14 seconds is not a concern, especially when it is stationary and arguably the most easily seen weapon.
  2. Duration reduction doesn’t really matter, you can’t throw one for 14 seconds, so who cares about a 1.5 second reduction in duration in comparison to a 12 second cooldown increase?
  3. Proximity detonation? well, you get one every 14 seconds, so you better make it count. Too bad hyde threw is shoulder out in high school baseball back in the day.

So, the grenade is supposed to be “a more effective area of denial weapon”, but I could hardly say that a 14 second cooldown is an increase to its effectiveness.

The grenade is also supposed to be “less spammy”, and on that, they’ve really overdone themselves on this one. Bravo.


#2

I used it just fine last night. Beat the global average by a lot. It is only for area denial and to prevent camping/hiding. His mini gun and flamethrower more than make up for that cool down.


#3

The grenade isn’t supposed to be a main battle weapon like the flamethrower or mini gun, it’s supposed to be used to push the monster out of a position that is extremely favorable to him, or to dissuade him from body camping, just as markovs mines are used to protect an area preemptively, Hydes grenades are to force the monster into either a less favorable spot for him, or somewhere easier for you to hit him. 14 seconds is hardly anything, especially when you should have your gun out most of the time anyway, instead of constantly chucking gas clouds that the monster is just going to move out of anyway.


#4

Sure, I understand the purpose of the grenade. We can discuss intended design, strategy, weapon multitasking, etc, all day. It is still an overall nerf, and 14 seconds is a very significant portion of the duration of a dome. If i only get 2 or 3 grenades off within a dome, odds are the monster will completely evade 1 or 2 of them, and there we go, an insignificant weapon. Hyde didnt need a nerf, but he got one.

Even a 6 or 7 second cooldown would be fine. 14 seconds is just too much. More effective weapon? Please.

The effectiveness of the grenade was that it forced the monster to move elsewhere. The damage hardly matters as long as it is enough to deter the monster from staying in the area. It already did enough damage to do that just fine. It doesnt matter how much damage it does if the monster is staying away from it, buffing its damage doesnt increase its ability to deny an area. Buffing the cloud size, maybe the projectile speed, would do that.

Giving him a 2 shell grenade launcher with a long reload time would make even more sense. Allow him to completely deny a large area and simply make him have to switch weapons and wait to use more. So many more ways this could have been done. 14 second cooldown is ridiculous.


#5

Hyde isn’t supposed to be littering the battlefield with gas clouds like Abe does with stasis grenades. Originally Hyde had a low DPS grenade you could use quite often, but this turn out to be useless: the monster would take the gas like a champ. So now the grenade gets a buff to do its intended purpose, which is to deny a typical monster-sized area, but you don’t need to be tossing them like candy anymore. The general idea is that you use the grenades to push the monster about so you can use the flame thrower or minigun, combined with improving visibility to your teammates to take advantage of their skills. It doesn’t matter if the monster evades them. In reality you want the monster to evade them: that is the point. You don’t push a monster into a cave and try to suffocate it via toxic grenades, you throw a grenade in hopes the monster flees elsewhere, hopefully more advantageous for you.


#6

I absolutely agree. 14 seconds still means it is useless though.

I agree that we want the monster to evade them. He used to be evading a grenade every 3-5 seconds based on the distance between me and him (flamethrower if he was close enough). Now he evades a grenade every 14-15 seconds. I’ve played enough with hyde. If you think this grenade change is anything but a nerf, go play some more games as hyde.

without the cooldown nerf, a player could toss a nade, pull out the flamethrower, put some DoT flame damage on the monster, toss another nade, and chase him with the minigun. Now you throw a nade, likely never get enough denial to force him into your flamethrower, so you pull out your minifail for 15 seconds and wish you did more damage.

Anyone who thinks this patch improved hyde is beyond delusional


#7

It’s obvious that the people complaining about the changes to hydes mine are those people who just throw the grenade then afk with the mini gun trYing to snipe the monster in the back corner of the dome.

Seriously your suppose to be in the monsters face with hyde. His quotes even hint that, and your complaining about the grenade being better and less spam for noobs? Sorry that trs know what they’re doing and it makes sense and all you can do is complain.


#8

I’ll just end my 2 cents by saying that if one grenade can deny him the best spot in the dome, even for just a little while and push him into the line of fire from the entire squad, then 14 seconds is fine by me. I’ll be switching to my flamethrower as soon as I can anyway :grin:


#9

Hyde doesnt have mines. Its obvious to me that youve never played him and therefore have zero credibility.

And anyone that used the minigun to “snipe” is a damned fool, the gun was and still is extremely inaccurate.

Does this place have anyone competent to give input or is this all we have?


#10

Mb for the typo? And if your complaining about petite details you obviously aren’t one to listen to.


#11

And you are? I complain about the grenade so you assume i spam nades and nothing else? Yeah, you should be trusted.

Hyde should be in the monsters face, but who is better at traversal, the monster or hyde? Can hyde just sit there holding down the trigger with his flamethrower, unabated and always in range? No, he cant, and the grenade was his way of controlling that lack of ability to maintain range, safety, and map control


#12

But your complaining that you can’t spam them anymore? 14 secs is nothing compared to like a cloak and now can compete with a Markov mine
get a good support or caira problem solved!


#13

Haven’t played post-patch Hyde, so I’m excited to see what he’ll bring to the table when I get my hands on him. One of my favorite characters!


#14

Cloak is the support version of assaults shield. Dont compare the two


#15

Totally agreed with you until a few hours ago. Save yourself the disappointment, buy the new assault, thats the reason the assaults got nerfed anyway. Sales ftw.

Nerf all hunters, release new ones. Excellent marketing strategy.

Btw nobody wanting to win spams nades. They used them when they needed to. Now the need is there, and the grenade is not. It is far less effective following a patch to increase its effectiveness.


#16

Oh… Oh, oh…
Oh.
:disappointed:


#17

When you are done trying it out please post your thoughts here


#18

Great, uh, just gimme…
Sunday.
Yep.
Then.


#19

Anyhow, to sum things up:

  1. They wanted to make the grenade “a more effective area of denial weapon”.

  2. toxic grenade damage isn’t really part of what makes the grenade effective, as long as the damage is enough to be a deterrent to the location of the cloud.

  3. They buffed the damage and nerfed everything else about the grenade rather heavily, effectively nerfing the grenade by buffing the one thing that doesnt make it more effective, and nerfing what matters.

  4. This forum (and obviously the balance team) is occupied by people that havent played hyde enough to understand the previous 3 points


#20

Okay.
Hyde is reserved for Goliath.
Perfect assault for him.
Yay.
I think…