Hunters stand no chance against a full health stage 2


#1

When the monster starts the game one of two things happen, either he gets caught by Val at stage one, or he wins.

Playing both hunter and monster I have learnt that nothing can stop the monster if they are at full health (with armour) and stage two, 4/5 times it’s just a guaranteed win, the only time I took one down was when the whole team was in TS and the monster player was horrid.

I think how the devs envisioned a stage two fight happening was either the team did a lot of damage at stage one and are able to take him down now or do so much more damage they basically set the win up for themselves at the next fight, be it stage 2 or 3. Or if the monster was barely seen at stage one/was caught once and they just turtled with full armour (this happens most of the time) the monster loses some health, some strikes are taken and then one team runs away.

Unfortunately scenario 2 hardly ever happens. What happens most of the time under that premise the monster will down a player or two then focus the medic with boulders, lightning or supernovas until the die. Once the medic is dead the rest of the team pretty much is too. Usually at this point as a monster player I have probably lost my armour, especially if I’m dealing with Hank as well so I’ll run away a little bit, the team is hesitant to follow and I get up my armour before charging right back the remaining three and just slaughtering them. Perhaps if I feel crazy I’ll go stage 3.
Most of the monster I play against have also adopted this strategy.

I totally understand that really hammering the monster at stage one or catching the newly evolverd monster before they get armour can be a game changer and that not doing it yields consequences like not having a fight at stage 2 that’s as advantageous as you’d like it to be. Plus there’s no chance of the hunters escaping the monster save a lucky support due to his massive speed advantage and wallhack. But as it stand now it seems like unless you really hurt the monster at stage one or find the bugger without armour you just have no chance of killing him when you’d think that, in theory, it should be an equal fight where both sides suffer losses, 2 teams both at full health with an equal damage output.

In reality that just, doesn’t happen.

tl;dr capturing the monster at stage one is completely essential to victory instead of giving a nice small advantage.


#2

Disagree, I’m afraid. Once hunters learn to time their dodges, to utilise cloak and shield properly in battle, master those Tier 2 abilities, Stage 2 fights are about an even match between a good monster and a good hunter team, in my experience.


#3

i’ve beaten a stage 3 goliath as hyde and markov
though it was on dam
and i just spammed my grenades and mines on the area he kept trying to climb up

And i’ve beaten a stage 3 wraith (keep in mind this wraith was REALLY good and wooped our asses at all further matchs)
in a 1v1 standoff as markov

and several stage 3 kraken

Out of all the monsters
stage 3 kraken has to be the easiest to beat


#4

Well of course if the hunters are marginally better than the monster they are going to win, I’m trying to talk about an even skill level because as the hunters learn to dodge the monster learns to bait, as the hunters learn to effectively cloak the monster learns to effectively turtle.


#5

No, I didn’t say marginally better :slight_smile: I said even skill level, and that means hunters that know how to be a decent hunter the same as the monster knows how to be a decent monster. Being able to time your dodge and do basic things like harpoon and heal the right people at the right time isn’t rocket science or pro level play.


#6

Got nothing to add besides my own experience. The reality for me is that taking on a stage 2 is where you need to start being careful but it’s far from impossible. You won’t kill them but you’re not meant to kill them in one fight anyway. Making a couple of mistakes may lead to a strike on a teammate but it’s easy to put “strikes” on the monster while getting battered around but still remain unphased yourself (I’ve had plenty of tense fights with some raised voices then afterwards go “well, we didn’t get any strikes, so that’s a good one for us”).

I’m inclined to believe that hunters have the advantage at an even skill level, but that’s hard to judge when the skills are in different fields for either team.

Basically, from my perspective, hunters stand a pretty good chance against a full health stage 2.


#7

In my current experience, A fully armored S2 monster in the L25+ area of play yields about a 20-25% success rate for hunters.


#8

Dude, I ain’t seen that much backpeddeling in quite awhile lol. Either you and your team aren’t working together, or you’re playing with one hand. Hunters are sickly OP as it stands from my and several of my friends viewpoint. Spammable harpoons, turrets that can be dripped enmass and be walked away from, healers who can cloak/rez, a dog that revives and tracks, basically a healing bloodhound. And you’re seriously complaining about a monster. I can almost BET if the total team DPS was parsed vs the DPS output on ANY stage monster, the Hunters would either edge it out or be sickly close. And let’s not forget, they can get heals IN battle. Those of us playing the monster have to go hunting and grab quick meals, and for any real boost, its an elite treat, and your likely gonna loose a chunk of arm our lol


#9

i disagree on several levels,

first off, you have to catch the monster during it’s evolution to actually damage it here. if you catch it seconds afterwards, a good player will have killed two or three monsters at his feet just before he evolves and fill his armor back up.

second off, i’ve seen a lot of teams just camping the power core with as many deployables as they can muster. if you just put mines under sentries thats wraith fucked half the time. it’ll take damage if it warps too close to the mines, and since there’s no cooldown on any hunter abilities to speak of it’s just a matter of time if you sit on one spot.

you’re probably not winning because you’re not using the most annoying abilities:

  1. lazarus played well (noob lazarus screws his team)

  2. that electrical bind thing. if you’re against kraken you should always use this. (i don’t know what character has this ability, i think it’s probably medic…?)

  3. turret spam supported by mines

  4. Slowdarts and harpoons

  5. stay on different levels and spread


#10

A competent team of hunters that work properly together have little problem in taking down a stage 3 monster any variety. As I mentioned in another post it takes only one even slightly slack hunter to doom the team…
I really hope they tweak the balancing mechanism such that monster player does not drastically outrank the hunters…
Near the start of this beta phase there were a few games where we were 4 x level 1/2 hunters against a rank 6 playing as monster and he decimated us 3 rounds on the trot so was clearly a monster preference player…


#11

It is very possible and I believe I have videos via my channel to prove it. It is all about each playing their role. There has been multiple times where we have been able to drop a LVL2/ 3 Goliath all the way down to its last two to three squares only to fail because Markov doesn’t want to place Arc Mines.

The game relies heavily on player cooperation and its benefit from each player knowing how to buff their team with their character. If you see your Trapper only using the dome shield then be scared, if you see Val not using her tranq gun and marking targets then be scared, if Hyde decides that it be best to just use his gatling gun because “Hey gatling guns in COD are better than everything, so I must be awesome!” then yeah get ready to be scared.

Play your roles, work with your team, gain victory.


#12

The stasis grenades are Abes… I have found them to be incredibly effective at almost crippling the movement of all 3 monster characters… especially great for bringing a Kraken down…
Love Griffins harpoon as well… great for holding monster in an orbital barrage circle…


#13

'decimated us 3 rounds on the trot ’ - usually if a monster beats a hunter team once he will do it reliably, i know once i’ve pecked away at their confidence i can be more aggressive.

the way i play monster is to play any team until they beat me; my meta is that i’ll keep terrorizing them till they outplay me, then they get a new monster to test them.

this works the other way round though (the confidence-chipping.) - a team does nothing but the most annoying tactics, you’ll be annoyed, so you’ll play like an idiot. (as monster)

a good way to annoy a monster is to have a really really loud mic and high voice.


#14

as monster you can’t hear the VOIP of the hunters can you… little point them co-ordinating with voice if you can hear what they are up to…


#15

before and after game you can hear them.


#16

so the idea is to taunt the monster with a chipmunk voice during the lobby sequence… I like the idea but not sure that would do anything (most gamers are carefree mofo’s) … i often find i have to mute a lot of the VOIP junkies… some of them are just too damn excitable and need to have some vocal chords and synapse pathways disconnected…


#17

I would say that Kraken has the most skill differentiation. A good Kraken is nearly impossible to beat, a bad Kraken is the easiest thing to hunt.


#18

Its because vortex is always up and knocks you 100m back k atleast


#19

Maybe the community will learn not to be stupid but it didn’t happen in L4D and it didn’t happen in BF4 and it didn’t happen in Splinter Cell, etc.

Even if the community somehow becomes smarter than all the other FPS communities I’m not sure that’s enough. As the monster you can really dictate where you want to fight, find a cliff and vortex/charge off groups of hunters (but not all of them so you can focus one). Harpoon is great and all but it can’t drag me down the bottom, dome is fantastic in caves as it’s the only place a cliff doesn’t exist but otherwise I’ll instantly climb up something high. Hunters either join me up top or don’t fight. Orbital Strike and maybe that poison grenade is all that really counters that and you can normally just leap to another peak.

Here’s a top tip, charge at the enemies and then 180 and hit shift, you can go off the cliff, stop, turn and step back on almost cartoon style.


#20

When I’ve played the monster, I’ve come out on top of every single stage 2 engagement and it’s been easy to do so. What’s some rechargeable armor and maybe a couple of health chunks, compared to double striking the medic and the support? I can hit stage 3, have the same amount of health, more armor and hit way harder. Good luck fighting a stage 3 with two strikes on your medic. The game will be as good as over before you’re half way through my absurd stage 3 armor.

As the Hunters get weaker, the Monster gets stronger. The balance is wayyyyy off in this game at the moment.