Hunter climbs up and down a wall over and over again, irritating for monster


#1

I’ve been having some trouble recently, when I play as Meteor Goliath or Behemoth, against a hunter that climbs up and down a big wall over and over again, because he knows it’s harder for the monster to hit him.

My last game in arena was against such a player, he spent the WHOLE GAME climbing up and down a wall, he wouldn’t do anything else.

As a monster it is very irritating. Any ideas on how to counter this?


#2

Bob: Fissure into said wall, tongue grab.
Gol: Throw a rock, if you miss, use flame breath.


#3

Not as far as I know. Just move away from the wall I think. You could always throw a rock or lavabomb/fissure at it. Abilities in general are a good counter


#4

I agree with both of you. As Goliath, I used fire breath from the ground while he was climbing up the wall. It only damaged like 20% of his health but, better than nothing I guess.

As Behemoth, I also tried fissure against the wall as he was climbing, but it didn’t work I’m not sure why. I tried to place my rocky wall over the edge of the wall, to make him not be able to reach the wall, but also, my rocky wall didn’t work at all… Like it does on the ground. Very frustrating. I tried tongue grab, but he was able to dodge it very quickly. Also, I think Wraith’s abduction is much more reliable to sucessfully hit a target far away than Behemoth’s, tongue grab.


#5

For reference, I believe this hunter tactic is referred to as ‘roaching’ - using the fact you can jet-climb walls you are pressed against with no jet fuel. I mention it because knowing/using a common name for it may help to refer to the tactic when looking at other threads, or talking about what you see people doing.

I recently watched @MaddCow 's past stream on eliting Tech Sgt. Hank, and he makes use of this in the Broken Hills Murder Pits Arena map to force the bot AI into a loop. If memory serves he commented as he did so that Goliath and Behemoth can have significant trouble against players who know how to “roach” well. I dont think he elaborated on general counters, though he did show what a player could have done in that specific location.

However with Tech Hank’s Orbital Drill now an option, be careful as a monster of being caught climbing up and down a long wall - staying in the same location horizontally is a perfect recipe for space-laser-to-the-face.


#6

Unless they’re the only one left, there’s nothing committing you to trying to down said hunter. It’s frustrating, it happens to me too.

Best serious advice I can give you; Swap targets. Once they come to a standstill and become a bit calmer, get back on their ass. A good monster should be doing this consistently anyway. I commonly do this when support cloaks, go for the medic then once hank tries to shield, nail 'em with an abduction/heavy then let them panic.


#7

This is a good bit of advice, and I’d like to add a little to it:

When hunters start using deliberate tactics like this and trying to dodge/mitigate significantly - support pops a cloak, etc - it is because you have pressed or threatened them enough that they feel the need to defend and do whatever evasive tricks they know. At that point they could be so focused on getting away that they lose the bigger picture, making mistakes - or at least not supporting the rest of their team for a bit. Swapping away to let them recover their composure (and jet fuel) is sometimes not the best choice - it really depends on the moment whether it is practical to pursue despite their countermeasures.

In the case of Roaching - if you ever get them off the wall, their jetpack fuel is likely fully spent and absent a Sunny Jetpack Boost, they will be in a poor position to dodge your next ability - rock throw, etc. Dont forget Goliath can Jump and then melee, or possibly leap attack into the side of a wall - though the latter is unreliable.


#8

If a hunter is climbing a wall over and over again, then he won’t have any jetpack to dodge your abilities. Rock throw and tongue grab should be guaranteed hits as long as you can aim.

I fought a stage two fight as MG against a support and medic who knew how to roach well. I gave up after two minutes not being able to do significant damage with flame breath, leapsmash and charge. So I put three points into rock throw on the evolve and won the match.

Rock throw and tongue grab also push/pull the hunter away from whatever he’s climbing. So all following abilities are much easier to land now, as the hunter still has no jetpack to dodge.


#9

Very good advice. I think grab tongue can work well at times, only I find it a bit difficult to aim, sometimes I miss, other times i hit the intended target. Another thing I want to try is get my timing right to melee attack the hunter just the right moment when he is trying to start the climb and push him away from that irritating tactic, where I can attack him like the game was intended to be played in the 1st place.

I didn’t know this name.


#10

You can also face the wall as you’re falling and melee to knock them off while the hunter is ascending. Timing may be a bit difficult but it so you’ll have to keep that in mind. Using abilities in the ways described will be more likely throw them off better but if they seem to be bugging out on you then this can be a simple solution.

P.S. I always knew the tactic as skirting


#11

Its fairly easy to stop, if you’re Goliath you can leap smash the wall which usually hits anything on top of the wall too, throw a rock which knocks the hunter away as long as you have a good shot, or use fire breath which doesnt get the hunter away from the wall, but does good damage. You can also jump straight at the wall and punch, which does a heavy melee that throws the hunter down.

For bob you can just cover the wall with lava bomb which makes it hard for the hunter to stay, use fissure to make the hunter fly off the wall, or use tongue grab as long as the hunter isnt already at the top of the wall. Behemoth’s heavy melee also makes it extremely hard to start climbing back up a wall from my experience.

The main thing you shouldnt do is waiting at the top for the hunter to jetpack up to pounce. Any hunter with more than a few brain cells know to fall back down the wall rather than to keep going up.

Once you really get used to the wall climbing strategy, it really isnt too hard to counter. The only problems I ever have problems with it anymore is when the hunter is lagging, it makes them really hard to hit.


#12

Be happy that this tactic isn’t as awesome as it used to be with Jump Height and Momentum Bonuses…

I swear I made a Goliath tear out his horns once…


#13

Leap Smash is a phenomenal counter if the wall is a certain height. You can start from the ground and collide with the top of the cliff or whatever, effectively shortening the animation and causing the aoe to overlap with parts of the wall.

If the wall is too tall for that, you should be able to exhaust their jetpack and Rock them as they climb, since you’ll have enough time. Or traverse at the wall and use an air heavy to knock them to the ground.


#14

At first sounds like a good idea, but I think that when a monster falls down the wall, no melee attack works, I’ve tried. This is what makes it harder. Not even profane language.

Skirting??? That’s new to me. Sounds almost sexual.

Those are a few suggestions worthwhile trying. I think leap smash is a good idea, but it all depends on how tall the wall is. Is it a big wall? Or a small wall? Height makes a difference in how sucessful certain abilities would be, I guess.


#15

You can melee while falling, and its a heavy melee each time.


#16

I’m not sure about that. I’ve tried some times, as Meteor Goliath, I was falling down the wall to chase a hunter that did the same, then I tried to melee him while falling, it didn’t work. No matter how many times I pressed the melee trigger, no melee for me or for him.


#17

I do it all the time. It works on all monsters too.


#18

I see a lot of posts in here that grossly underestimate how debilitating this can actually be against particular monsters when done right.

Clarification time:

Originally hunters used to go to the bottom of a wall, and start climbing it- Theyd hump up and down the wall.

To combat this, it was changed to that if you try to climb a wall without jet pack, you “hang” for like 1 second, then slooowly climb up and over the wall.

What a lot of people are unaware of- Is this basically just reversed how you do this technique. Now instead of doing it from the bottom of a wall, you do it from the top of a wall.

So when a monster is on you youll jump off of a cliff, and grab the wall towards the top. 99% of the time the monster will follow you. If they dont, you just drop and youre still ina good spot. But if they follow you- Spin around, and grab the wall towards the top. As the monster goes to drop down, youll hang at the top- And stay out of their reach. Its not as simple as “flame breath!” or “Rock!” the hunter. The hunter can be up and back over the cliffs edge long before the rock is completely cast, and at best- youll be doing half damage. In all likeliness though youll do no damage. If you flame breath, meh- Youll get almost none of the flame on them as they break LoS and get over the cliff. Will they be out of jet pack if they do this? Indeed they will. So now would bea good time to climb up the wall and oh, griffin harpoon. Or maggie harpoon. Or jack beam. Or youll try to chase them at a crawl because youre tranqed by Val who reduces you to 4.1x meters per second (compared to a hunters 5.5), or even slower if youre in stasis. Or hank will shield them, or drop an orbital on their head damaging you and blowing them clear on the other side of the map away from you. Or sunny will simply boost them away.

You COULD waste a traversal instead of climbing, but theyll just drop and hang on the cliff again, and restart the issue- And youre down a traversal now.

Thankfully its pretty rare to find people doing this RIGHT- But when they do, especially for particular monsters (goliath is definitely the biggest contender here), its amazingly frustrating with little you can do about it, IF the team knows how to capitalize on it. If you DONT think its bad, especially if you play goliath a lot when you monster, im strongly going to say a) youre either a hunter who doesnt do it properly (or doesnt care lol), or have THANKFULLY, never had it done to you.


#19

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