Hungryhippos detailed thoughts on Wraith


#1

I’m inclined to agree with several other players that certain parts of wraith are overpowered. While this is a very small statistic, it is a statistic nonetheless. My win ratio (along with several other friends on different platforms) vs wraith is not 50.1% as the dev’s suggest. It’s much more like 20-30% and of those wins its because it was just a bad monster that ran along the edge of the map or whenever they got domed they would try to fight level 1. Of the games we lost, it was the same usual bull, can’t dome him because he decoys and triple warps away or dome him so he decoys and triple warps to the other side of the dome. Games usually go past 15 minutes and he’s stage 3, warp blasts in, activates decoy, goes to the biggest group or singles out a high priority hunter (usually medic) and supernovas and finishes with basic melee attacks for the kill. Its a virtually fail proof formula for wraith.

Changes are required and they are coming soon. This isn’t a matter of taking % off damage, this is a matter of changing actual ability mechanics. Lets go over Wraith.


Pros
High Damage
High Mobility
High Escapability

Cons
Lack of armor and health.
The only con that I can see with wraith right now is his lack of health and armor but considering that he is so slippery and hard to hit (what seems like a tiny hit box compared to the other two) he almost feels like he has as much effective health as the other two.


Wraith’s Abilities

Abduction - I like this abilty alot, It’s feels right right when its used both on the user side and the receiving side. If it doesn’t already, I think it should deal more damage if you can land it in crouched/stealthed mode.

Warp Blast - I like this ability, some damage and some movment is fun. I do think it should cost you a warp though because it is another mobility movement on an already mobile monster.

Supernova - I’m fine with this ability except for that the decoy can use it as well which gives decoy even more utility and unnecessary damage. While it deals lots of damage, there is counterplay. You can jetpack out and shoot him in the face. The counterplay is… don’t fight him in tight spaces or with your back against the wall.

edit: I was reading some other posts and the story behind Wraith and supernova doesn’t feel right thematically for a stealth assassin, it is overly flashy and just feels like a raging viking swinging his axes every which way. I haven’t put much thought into what it could be other than it doesn’t feel right for an “assassin” monster.

Decoy - Every other skill in the game has a time and a place to use an ability. Abduction is not the best choice when you’re in the middle of 4 hunters. Warp blast is not ideal for 1 person right in front of you, supernova is not the best choice when you’re in an open area where hunters can easily jetpack out. Decoy however can be used offensively, defensively and for escaping. The amount of utility this skill provides is unreal. The question is, what isn’t this skill good at? When shouldn’t you use it? What situation should you not use it? What can it do though? Damage. Invisibility. Second Monster. Low Cooldown. My main issue with this skill is the invisibility, jumps and low cooldown. What I want to know is how do you punish wraith? Because right now, you can’t, this is an automatic get out of jail free card and it never fails. If wraith gets caught in a fight, it shouldn’t be able to pop this and just warp far far away. I want to know where the counter play is for this ability. Most other abilities have weaknesses, you can dodge abduction, you can jetpack out of supernova, warpblast isn’t instant so that can be dodged. All Goliath and kraken moves have indicators for moves so you can dodge, duck and weave but decoy? No, you can’t do anything except accept that fate that wraith will get away and you have zero say in it.

Here is my suggested fix for adding counterplay for decoy.

  • Increase the cooldown by at least 10 seconds if not more.
  • Wraith creates a decoy that lasts x seconds as a diversion while becoming invisible. While invisible, he gains x0% movement/climb speed for x seconds. If Wraith jumps/warps, he loses his invisibility and move/climb speed. His decoy lasts x seconds will have x% of his currrent health will chase and deal basic melee attacks to near by hunters and wildlife. at the end of the duration or if they decoy is distroyed, the decoy will disappear and activate warp blast at its location. Decoy’s basic attacks and warp blast deal damage = x% of wraiths missing health. I like the % health and % missing health for damage which gives decoy predictability, if wraith uses it at high health, it doesn’t deal much damage but it takes several seconds to kill, has a chance to get in your face and activate warp blast at close range but if wraith uses it at low health in a team fight, he can deal damage and have a couple seconds to get away but not too far away.
  • If wraith uses another ability while invisible, that ability will deal x% more damage. This gives decoy a fun offensive use besides being a obvious escape tool.

Hunters that I prefer to use against wraith.

Medic - Laz, the down bonus is a huge win for wraith deals tons of damage in very short amounts of time, the other two medics can’t heal through his damage, and he is the only one with a viable way of escaping.

Support - Bucket - The UAV does wonders to find him, the catch being that its overly difficult to capture and contain wraith. OR Second option, Hank - Good timing with the shield makes wraith damage useless and well placed orbital strikes are for map control and protecting downed people. Cabot - I think he’s useless after level 1 because you barely keep up with DPS with a monster on level 2 depending on skills and you 100% can’t out dps any monster at level 3 unless the player is secretly blindfolded behind his computer. If it comes to vision, bucket and abe do it better

Trapper - Abe. Two words. Stasis grenades. Maggie isn’t a bad second pick, well placed harpoon traps are a bitch to deal with.

Assault - Whatever playstyle you prefer. I think Markov goes great with bucket for area control, hyde is great because of toxic grenades, if wraith wants to run and hide in a corner, this isn’t an issue anymore plus his minigun goes well with Lazerus’s weak points. Both have no problems providing reliable easy damage. Parnell is obviously more skill based, accuracy is key. I personally prefer Markov, he can keep is distance and control the battlefield and force the wraith to come to him to deal damage.


Those are hungryhippos thoughts on wraith. If I’m playing in pugs and go vs wraith, I just leave the game and start a new one. Waiting around for 20 minutes or waiting til he’s stage 3 just isn’t fun anymore and its so predictable what is going to happen.


TL:DR

Decoy is anti-fun.


#2

Finally an intelligent Wraith analysis. @MacMan thoughts?


#3

Finally a topic on Wraith without senseless bashing. I tip my hat to you, sir.


#4

Good post. Though i dislike the two opinions above me because they disregard others exact same opinions because theyre not 5 paragraphs long.


#5

I love using Cabot against a Wraith, I find the Dust Tagging and Rail Cannon to be excellent in dealing with Wraith especially in the Arena. Cabot’s DPS is really good, you just need good aim with the Rail Cannon and proper communication with Damage Amp.


#6

I feel like wraith is so close to balance and just needs a little tweaking.

Decoy
Decoy is still the biggest offender but, in my opinion is only broken due to a couple of small things. The amount of damage the decoy deals is pretty ludicrous. The AI for the decoy at stage 3 will almost always dash in and do the AoE melee attack. This has an enormous range (well beyond its visual hitbox) and will deal around 60% of a hunter’s health. That’s pretty ridiculous. I definitely think the decoy should deal damage, but it should not be as much or more than the wraith itself. a 50%-80% damage on decoy would be great. It helps stop Wraiths sitting outside the power relay, sending in the decoy until it hits someone. This or allow people to destroy it more easily. It’s rather silly that a full team of hunters defending the relay have to run away as fast as possible every time decoy is sent in. Another key point for this, unless the damage is reduced, decoy should not freeze the round timer when it fights. This allows wraith to stall the game for as long as necessary to get a decoy hit on a player.

Supernova
I’m kind of loathe to suggest another ability change along with a decoy nerf but supernova does pretty insane damage. It can whittle through the assault’s shield in a matter of seconds. No other monster in the game can come close to doing this, and certainly not with just one ability. It also means that if the wraith wants someone on the ground dead, there is little you can do. Supernova over the corpse, kill and decoy out.

I don’t think Wraith is close to as broken as people make out and I actually really enjoy playing against it. I’ve had some brilliant games (last night especially) against wraiths which were very tense. I just feel when it comes to the later combat stages, it’s not at all in the hunter’s favour.


#7

Fair enough, I can see the potential in a organized hunter team. I do find in pubs there isn’t enough communication to make the dps boost viable like you said. My thought process for suggesting bucket over cabot is that you can set up all your turrets in a wide area fairly quickly to protect the target (trapper/medic usually) and turrets are consistent in dealing damage. All you have to do is tell your teammate to try and stay in this area while your assault forces the fight into your ideal fighting ground. I’ll have to talk to my buddies and see if we can figure out cabot because our team puts high priority on area control, crowd control and vision and cabot doesn’t really offer anything in those areas that other hunters can do better.


#8

I thought this topic was going to be about the wildlife ‘hippos’ and how they effect the wraith :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:

However, good points made!


#9

Decoy is broken due to a lot of things it can do unfortunately. It is the most versatile skill of any of the monsters and there is pretty much never a wrong time to use it. In most games there are usually 3 or 4 things a skill can do. Damage, Crowd Control, buff/debuff and movement (blinks, dashes, increased move speed). When an ability can do 2 or more of those things really well, there tends to be balancing issues. Goliath for example is a solid and balanced monster, his rock throw deals high damage and has decent crowd control (knock back), his leap thing is a balance of damage, crowd control (knock back) and a movement mod (jump) his flame breath is just straight up aoe damage, nothing else to it and lastly his rush ability, damage is decent, movement is decent and crowd control is decent, a bit of everything. If the devs needed to tune goliath they only have to change a damage and maybe attack size or cc knock back but all his abilities are fun to play with and against. There isn’t a thing i’d change about goliath, he’s a good ole melee brawler.

Back to decoy though, the real problem is that it introduces decent damage (potentially high when combined with other abilities), super high movement and an incredibly strong buff (invisibility) and since decoy is a physical object, it has potential to limit movement and possibly push you back a bit when it comes at you. So decoy is strong at 2 to 3 of the 4 ability effects.


#10

i always maintain that decoy is a hard counter for laz, use it for eating bodies


#11

I think its the other way around, laz soft counters wraith because wraith lacks consistent and easy to land CC to stop laz from doing is undead thing.


#12

I just got a really weird idea, what if we switch the invisibility of decoy to warp blast ?


#13

What do you mean by super high movement? You cannot move quickly while the decoy is out. If you use Wraith’s traversal it will vanish. It is an exceptionally good skill right now but I don’t believe it requires all that much nerfing. The damage, especially is the biggest part. You did just describe how all of Goliath’s abilities have a variety of uses. I do agree that goliath is the best designed (and most fun!) monster. He’s my favourite by a long shot.