Hopeful Game Changes


#1

Since we have the stats for the first week of play with this game (seen here: https://downloads.2kgames.com/evolvev3/images/articles/evolve_launch_info_lg3.jpg )

I think we have some grounds to improve things, using this data for a guide.

Monster Level Win Rate:
The lvl 1 monsters seem to be the only issue here. My thought to increase this number from 1-in-10 to closer to 1-in-5 (20%) would be increase the power of the lvl 1 abilities, and equally decrease the power gain in the lvl 2 abilities. (I.e.: Increase Rock Throw damage by 25% at rank 1, and decrease the gain of rock throw at lvl 2 by 25%). That way the powers have a bit more kick in the early game, but remain constant in power stats for the rest - making these numbers remain constant.

Hunter Popularity
This needs some looking at. If some hunters are more appealing than others, in needs to be checked. Every hunter should be as equally good as its class peers (cause I am getting sick of seeing Cabot in EVERY game these days! And I play mostly as Hunters!!).

ASSULT CLASS
Numbers are quite decent here. Parnel could use a slight buff to take 4% of popularity from Hyde, though I feel this group is based more on coolness factor over gameplay (Hyde is pretty psycho - and we sick bastards seem to love it!)

TRAPPER CLASS
Abe is clearly dominant here. The coolness factor of bounty hunter + cowboy helps, but I think we could pull his kit down a bit to make him less ‘celebrity’ (which is a shame since he is my main Hunter :smiley: ). My thoughts

  • Reduce Tracking Dart duration by 10% (I believe that would make it 5-seconds shorter, which is subtle, but could work)
  • Reduce Slow Grenades radius effect by 5-10% (compared to the harpoons, there is minimal skill needed here. Just lob them around. Pulling the radius in would increase the need to be more accurate on where you throw them).

MEDIC CLASS
Poor Val. I don’t blame the others for it though - Laz and Caira are cool - but Val is lacking just in power effect. They can get off 5/ 10 shots with their weapon before reload, she only gets one. They have decent escapes (cloak/ run), she can only slow down the inevitable brute comming at her. Their heals are great (AoE heal and ressurection). Hers is slow and reveals her location (odd since she’s a spy… figured she’d be more subtle).

My thoughts for Val:

  • Increase reload speed on the rifle by 20% so she can put the hurt out more often.
  • Increase the duration of her ‘weakspots’ on the monster by 300% - make them last three times as long as Lazarus’ to make the reload requirement have a pay off from damage duration
  • While a Monster is Tranquilized, its stamina regeneration is paused - meaning it cannot regain empty dash/ leap/ lurch
  • Nerf Caira’s heal by 15%. Its an explosion of healing gel. It shouldn’t be as effective as a focus healing beam. Pulling this down would certain bump Val up.

SUPPORT CLASS
Cabot’s damage amp is just crazy brutal with a decent team. It basically causes the whole monster to be one big weakpoint, in ADDITION to the actual weakpoints. If two hunters are attacking the monster while the amp is on, its suffering the damage of x4 hunters (i.e.: the two hunters damage is doubled). If the whole team is attacking while the amp is on, thats x6 times the damage - and thats not even counting the damage increase from hitting headshots and weakpoints. It also requires minimal skill to use - just point and hold.

A simple fix for this:

  • Reduce Damage Amp multiplier by 25% (i.e.: 75% damage increase). This would have the following effect
  • Two hunters attacking the monster normally deal 200% damage. With the amp on they deal 350% damage (essentially three hunters, plus some damage support).
  • Three hunters attacking the monster would deal 300%. With this amp, that would increase to 525%. Thats the damage output of 5 hunters and some minor support.

#2

stage 1 monster is fine. monster should be at the disadvantage at this stage, not getting a power up.


#3

I admit my thought on that was very 50/50. I agree the monster should be at a disadvantage, but even then there should still be some degree of threat to the hunters to corner the beast.

Increasing the abilities damage at lvl 1 would help that. Lvl 2 and 3 abilities should remain as they are, but if you increase the lvl 1, the lvl 2 needs to be scaled down enough to match it all out.

Its a minor thought, but could raise the 10% win rate of lvl 1 monsters to closer to 20% so its a bit more forgiving if you do screw up early game.


#4

I just feel right now it’s fine. A good monster can still hurt a hunter team at stage one. It’s just if the hunters are good enough to catch a monster at stage 1 it shouldn’t end in favor of the monster. Unless the hunters are really that bad.

I mean right now unless you are really out matched no monster game is over if you do get caught at stage 1. Just makes a bad start as it should. Monster players really shouldn’t be ending games at stage 1.


#5

I have to agree with the stage 1 stuff, I personally quite like the balance. And as the monster if you don’t go too crazy and try and force the hunters off you you can definitely survive that first fight reasonably well and bail when the dome goes down.

In terms of your other balance thoughts I like some of your ideas for number adjustments, but equally (as you’ve mentioned) some of the numbers probably aren’t a complete reflection of how useful a character is, but also who that character is. Hyde being a prime example as you mentioned, I don’t know if he really needs to be adjusted, people will continue to play him cos his character is pretty crazy but get annoyed when he can’t do as much.

Macman mentioned in a thread who the adjustments would be to for masteries in the balance update based on length of time to achieve. You may find some of those are adjusted by improving their abilities rather than decreasing the mastery requirements (sorry if that doesn’t make sense, cant think of better wording atm).


#6

Caira needs her amount of heal for two reasons.

  1. Aiming with her when you are trying to dodge a monster is a hell of a lot tougher then the auto tracking of Val’s gun. Caira misses a lot so that extra healing is needed to make up for those misses.

  2. Caira has zero escape once she uses speed. Val can stay at a distance with the reach of the medgun and slow with tranq long enough to give the rest of the team time to help her. Caira more often then not finds herself getting beat down by the monster so can do nothing but heal burst with grenades to last long enough for help to get to her or the rest of the team to damage down the monster.

You nerf her heal ability then what is the benefit to playing her?

Overall, much of the stuff in this thread is based on popularity. “This character is more popular so nerf it”, without any consideration to the skills.

And the OP missed out on some very obvious fixes that need to happen like fixing toxic grenade and Buckets UAV.


#7

You raise fair points, but same time popularity will be based on playstyle as much as character theme. I also never said Caira should be nerfed hard - but that she should be pulled back to make Val more appealing. Lets consider the fight between the grenades and the gun of these two ladies:

  • Both have long range use (1 all)
  • Caira’s grenades do AoE heals; Val’s gun heals a single target (gren 2/ gun 1)
  • Grenades can heal the user; Gun only heals allies (gren 3/ gun 1)
  • Both heal at approximately the same pace; though the grenades can heal multiple targets - meaning depending on circumstances they heal x1-4 times as much as fast (gren 4/ gun 1)
  • Grenades splash can be fired to affect over rocks/ around corners; gun requires unbroken line-of sight (gren 5/ gun 1)
  • Gun has a LOT of ammo; grenades require some reloading (gren 5/ gun 2)
  • Gun has no need for skill to use; grenades require some accuracy (gren 5/ gun 3)

I can’t think of much else to take into account, but the score is +2 to the grenades over the gun. As such the grenades seem the superior healing tool of the two. Hence my thought on the nerf.

With all these taken into account, if we were to pull Caira’s healing grenades down by 15% per shot, it means Val’s gun would heal faster (even if it hasn’t changed). Caira will still have a lot of the above perks with her grenade launcher, and players who can master the aiming needed will be rewarded for it (I’m a firm believer that skill should be rewarded over spaming and auto-targeting).

Keep in mind too that the 15% doesn’t restrict it from doing AoE heals, so healing two allies would result in a heal of 170% over 200%. Its subtle but it could pull her down enough to make Val more appealing.

This nerf would also not affect Caira’s Class Heal ability. She keeps both her AoE heals - just that one is reduced over the other.


As for your other points, I never said Caira should be nerfed anywhere else - only that by pulling her down a bit Val will go back up. However, to address your point of why would anyway play Caira if her healing is reduced? I offer the following:

  • She is still a healer with two heals (Class and her grenades), both of which are AoE’s making her great for getting the whole party back up.
  • Her adrenaline affects all nearby members allowing the whole team to catch up on a running monster and keep the preasure up. It requires no skill to use and does give her an escape Val doesn’t have (you mentioned Val can keep her distance - well so can Caira. Both her grenades are long ranged weapons).
  • If a monster pounces Val, she has her Class heal to buy herself time and thats it. If a monster pounces Caira, as you mentioned, she can grenade herself to extend her life and even heal nearby allies trying to help her. She can even pop her adrenalin to buy her some running time in the dome. So her survivability is MUCH higher than Vals all things considered. Saying she has zero escape minus the adrenline isn’t exactly a point in this argument’s favor since it puts her on par with Val at that point. Meaning she is as a good as Val without adrenaline… do you see what I’m saying here?
  • Caira’s AoE attack is great for clearing hostile wildlife, requires less skill to use than the sniper rifle (since it is an AoE and has 4 shots instead of only 1), and does damage over time from its flames. Its flames also counter cloaking on Wraith - though that is very circumstantual. Its splash also hits targets around corners, so all in all - I find it superior to a one-shot, long reload, sniper rilfe.

From my opinion, pulling her heal down by this small amount wouldn’t make her less appealing at all. And again its not about making Caira suffer, its about giving Val a chance to be considered as good (because a difference of popularity at 16% is quite notable).


I also chose not to address Bucket and Hyde. I also don’t see what these obvious fixes are you’re alluding to. Point them out and I’ll happily express my views. Assuming people know what you’re talking about isn’t helpful for expressing your point, and makes for poor communication. Be clear and you’ll get a response (unless you are just arguing for the sake of arguing - in which case stay obscure and no one will bother you with an intellectual retort).

And I’m not basing these ideas on popularity alone. I’m basing it on balance of character selection. I’m suggesting minor adjustements to characters to attempt to equalize all character appeal. My Medic point was about making a character more popular, not nerfing a popular one.

I think you’ve missed the point and may instead be trying to save Caira (suggesting you may be a big fan of hers) at the expense of not reading what has been written here and the ideas being presented. I could be wrong, and if so educate me.