Hit "5" for Ultimate?

  • YES
  • NO

0 voters

Rationale:

Many EVOLVE Players (not all, but a vocal group) feel that Balancing is a real problem with this game and would like to see it improve. Enough players feel the “Balance Problems” are both a barrier to player retention and a barrier to EVOLVE’s success.

In many online and multiplayer games, particularly those that are very successful, a relatively easy (and generally accepted) solution to Balance Problems (of which EVOLVE seems to be the subject of every other hour) is to simply allow the Overpowered state to drift from player to player or faction to faction, usually governed by a “Super Meter” or “Ultimate Meter” like in fighting games, or some other system. You know these by other names: “Kill Streaks”, “Point Streaks”. They’ve been in games since the 1980’s when many coin-op games implemented consumable “Kill everything” buttons.

EVOLVE’s characters and game rules involve a chess-like playing experience, but like in Chess, comebacks are rare, and the winners tend to look overwhelming, while the losers can look supremely stupid. This can lead to polarized player experiences and hence the issue many in the community have with it.

Until now, TRS, has had to attempt to address this issue through hidden buffs, tweaking, retweaking, and changes to Perks, changing character values… But they haven’t been able to make everyone happy.

I feel like the success of “overbalancing” comes from the illusion that Players are “earning” their “Match Equalizer” and in there is the illusion of skill, and the feeling that if the game gave you this kind of opportunity then it is “balanced”.

I personally am of the belief that EVOLVE should not need such a drastic way of “overbalancing” the game. But I cannot ignore that “overbalancing” has been used repeatedly and with much success in Gaming. From fighting games like Street Fighter, to the wildly successful Overwatch, “Supers” and “Ultimates”, governed by their own system for attainment, have gone by almost subliminally as acceptable.

On the other hand, such a practice can also lead to cat-calls that a game has become too casual. A dog of a player using McCree’s ultimate in Overwatch can send even the most experienced Overwatch opponents back to respawn. Same with COD players who manage to get Riley (or worse: KEM Strike). Same with Street Fighter players who manage to nail the Super on even a more experienced opponent.

But admittedly for people complaining that they “Cannot Kill a Slim” or they feel “Goliath is too Powerful!” or “Behemoth is Broken and Can Never Be Balanced”. Surely, the quick and easy way is to simply allow players to press “5” and “overturn the balance tables” drastically for even a short amount of time? Is this what people really want?

My question to the community is: “Is it time EVOLVE adopted this strategy to end the Balancing Issue?”

And beyond the vote is: "How do you think such a system should be implemented?"
Finally: “If you are an advocate of this system, what kinds of Supers/Ultimates do you think some of your favorite Characters should have?”

Personally, I think adding new abilities is the last thing we should want to do. TRS already has trouble balancing the four abilities each character gets, I don’t think it’s wise to add in a 5th, more powerful ability.

There’s no telling what those abilities might be, how to balance them, and if they’d even fit the play style of Evolve.

I’d much prefer the see team to balance the game as is before adding more abilities.

2 Likes

Win rates for most characters staying as close as they are to 50% are what i would consider balanced.

Every ability a monster has is already an ultimate compared to most mobas and games that have them, especially at stage 3.

Hunters have the class ability which is stupid good and basically is an ultimate.

1 Like

I personally lose more than I’ve won against human players… and I don’t feel there is anything wrong with the game.

But I see too often people complaining that they “can’t even down one guy” or “this particular Hunter/Monster is broken forever”. Like that video showing a Slim under Sunny-Shield being stronger than a Goliath.

That “test” contains a lot of control conditions… but what does it mean? Should Goliath have this “Gouki-style Insta-Death Karate Chop from the Sky” to “balance” against that? Is that what the people want?

I feel like some devs are getting away with it by saying: “Quit your whining! Here’s a special button that activates when X condition is met… and if you press it… you get your Kill/Down/High Score… OK?”

And I’m just pointing at it and asking: “Is this what you people REALLY want?”

I don’t like this idea, not only because of it’s against the very nature of Evolve. But also because I don’t feel like it would fix the “balance” issue. We’d have characters with stronger Ultimates than others.

2 Likes

Whoa whoa whoa, back it up.

I mean if it means getting Goliath the ability to do Shun Goku Satsu…

That does sound pretty baller.

1 Like

I dont :smiley:

I feel the vast, VAST majority of players will never have half a clue about the balance of this game and will never even see the skill ceiling let alone be anywher near it- And strongly feel the player situation for evolve is largely because the inherent game play of evolve lacks any “feel good moments” that the “losing side” can experience throughout the match- And strongly feel the only other practical “feel good” thing the losing side can get is a close match, with the answer being to incorporate something that helps ensure all games are “close”.

If all matches were forced to appear close without dramatically altering “who should have won”, i firmly and honestly believe that the majority of casual / average players would have far fewer complaints about balance- Because instead of losing spectacularly all the time where the monster has near full hp, or the hunters have maybe 1 strike, theyd go “man that was a close game!”. Making players believe the match COULD have gone either way would have a huge impact on how they perceive balance- And i think in a good way.

1 Like

a good implemented ultimate which is fair would be fun to use

1 Like

there were many suggestions made by on the suggestion tabs like:

  • better post-screen(graphs,feedback,perk choices by all characters, etc)
  • victory poses
  • MVP of the match, also play of the game(like overwatch).
  • Vote for artificial handicap before the match starts or during the match for the monster where he gets extra keys if he wins with a handicap or the hunters if they win against a handicaped monster.(i dont like this approach as it mocks the opositions skill,if they win, it was easy mode and would not feel like an acomplishment, if they lose they will feel worse than shit,but it would in theory bring close games but the trade off is way too big.)
  • Automatic AI in-game handicap based on hunter and monster skills.
  • Automatic in-game advantages to the losing side during the match.

im not a big fan of this, i dont like the illusion that im hot shit, but i understand why games have these,gives players an entry of play with very low skill, a Balancing for Skill mostly, like the noobtube on COD,The P90 on CSGO,these things should be very hefty if you missed em, and put you on a huge disadvantage, or not be as powerful as an ultimate should be.

hell balance in a game like evolve is already a nightmare as it is, what happens when you add ultimates in the mix? its gonna change things for better or for worse, probably for worse, i really dont think ultimates have a place in evolve.


[spoiler]heres a vid from extra credits talking about Balancing for Skill which is basically what @GoliathSteak would want in a game like evolve whilst i dont agree that this should be applied in every game, its a very intresting thing on why devs do it and how they put limits on it

vid link:Click Here
[/spoiler]

1 Like

I clicked yes because it was right there but then I read the post

I have abstained from voting because on one hand I could see every character having a special as something really cool. Imagine if Hank got a new ability bit retained the orbital as it used to be in OG Evolve as a special.

That would be insanely awesome!

But at the same time certain abilities could ultimately lead to more imbalance. (Hanks orbital isn’t going to break the game, but some unforseen new ability might)

1 Like

I want to clarify I do NOT want this… But I wonder with all the “beating around the bush and the horse” that’s going on… if we’re not really already headed in this direction anyway.

The “good” things about Ultimates/Supers are almost always shallow. They may have specific conditions to be enabled for use, but recently have almost always been reduced to just a few button presses (or one button on Overwatch) to unleash.

They also serve an artistic purpose, as it gives devs an excuse to use some overblown VFX to satisfy a player’s need to “feel awesome” and be “instantly gratified”.

The “bad” things about Ultimates/Supers have more to do with actually playing the game. As it adds up to “holding your Super” or “building up to Super”. When I play COD… I think: “gotta get my dog”. I’m not thinking about teammates or anything else… I just need my damn dog… then I need my sniper nest and rack up kills to get me helicopter.

Is it fun? Yes… but are you really playing to the best of your ability all the time? No.

I’ve been getting a nagging feeling since we’ve started asking for… and are getting… things like “Auto Healing Toggle”… “Auto Shotgun single button press”. How long before we have Goliath going “Misogi” on Hunter’s arses whenever they use Slim?

ive seen amazing turn arounds

So have I… participated in some of those actually.

My first impression is the comebacks in EVOLVE are much harder to pull off… and rely on an increasing stress level to take hold of the other faction. Many times you can see the other side messing up… or your side messing up (a phenomenon I have termed “the slide”). It’s distressing, and many times you know it’s happening. But at the same time, you are powerless at the time to turn it back.

It’s like you’re in the Superbowl… and you know you’re losing or winning the game… and everything was on the line.

This isn’t like in COD when the comeback can happen because apparently everybody on the other team were holding on to two stacks of Support Squadmate and they all call them down at the same time… so your team of 6 is now fighting 6 + 12 AI soldiers!

And you’re all laughing at it afterwards. Because “Of course! There’s no way to counter that counter! But man! That was hilarious! Well Played Well Played!”

When you manage to “snatch defeat from the jaws of victory” in EVOLVE… you tend to rethink your position in the universe. :stuck_out_tongue:

by amazing turn around i mean killing the monster with pistols as one of my team mates were pounced

Yeah I did that too…Though I had the benefit of being downed into a bush right beside a building. The Monster player kept walking near me but was ignoring me!

I’ve also been on the other end where the first dome the Monster got hit really bad… and then… suddenly we eat 2 downs then 3… And it becomes a “race to the bottom of the barrel”.

What I’m saying is that the feelings are less intense in games where “every loser has a good excuse for losing”… (ie: You nailed the Ultimate… of course you win/Play of the Game).

1 Like

Play of the game:
XxNoobDestroyerXx as goliath
clip starts of hunters falling down the dropshit and being immediately killed by hacks
that would help a lot come to think of it

That is actually… a GOOD comparison… Because when it happens… you lose… but feel “less blame” right? “A Hack killed us.”

I guess if Goliath filled out a meter… and then you’re treated to this swirling VFX filled thing that sent your previously unscatched Slim straight to dropship… yeah… sure… someone would be yelling in the headphones…

But the aftermath would be remarkably similar… Like a hack… it happens too fast. And imagine if that also “fed” into Slim’s “Ultimate”? So that guy can get “Revenge”?

See where that’s going?

I’m going to take a lot of pains to explain I’m not an advocate of this system. Because I actually love to certain extent the stress levels in playing EVOLVE. I dropped games like COD as soon as I got my taste for EVOLVE… Just bringing this up for discussion. :slight_smile:

1 Like

I feel that the addition of a “push to win button” even with a meter would take the fun out of evolve. IMHO, evolve is a fight for survival on both sides, like a game of chess on steroids in a sense. Little mistakes like missing a rocket from PaPa or using Bucket’s 3rd while everyone’s skills are off cooldown could really cost the team, and it’s fun that way. You should get punished for your mistakes and be rewarded for doing the right thing at the right times. Adding an ultimate that you can rely on when things go sour would take the reward out of playing good.

This is only from my experience of only 70 hours of gameplay but from those 70 hours, I have had a lot of fun with how things are.

Just stating my opinion. :smiley: