People saying monster without reasoning - care to elaborate?
My vote is Monster play is far harder based on game mechanics alone.
The reason people tend to say Hunters are “harder” is that hunter teams require coordination to reach their full potential, and pubstomping monsters often give the impression that hunters are woefully outmatched. However a hunter team with map knowledge and coordination is a truly fearsome opponent for any monster. Plus Monsters have to keep track of 4 small points during combat versus hunters watching a single large target, and Hunters are universally ranged attackers whereas Monsters must often go melee and expose themselves to danger.
That’s the end of the short version. Long version follows.
In terms of Mistakes, yes a Monster with armor has more of a buffer to work with to START the fight - assuming the Monster was able to acquire armor and was not domed fresh out of an evolve - but that armor can melt fast in combat, and permanent life damage is just that: permanent. Hunter strikes are not an exact parallel, as they are only applied when a hunter goes FULLY down; anything less than that and they can be healed back up. A comparison would be if Monster life bars regenerate unless fully emptied, at which point they would be greyed out. Since Hunters start with their MOST life when monsters are at their weakest, that first strike is always the hardest to apply - especially for a Stage 1 or 2.
A large part of the game is about zoning - one side being able to intimidate or outposition the other side. By virtue of having four independently moving/acting points of presence, coordinated Hunters are able to cover a far larger area and cover for each other. For example Trappers can position at chokepoints and run an inner circle of the map while the team engages and pushes the monster toward a dome; hunters with deployables can build up ‘safe’ regions where melee monsters (which is all of them except Kraken) cannot follow to finish kills without being severely punished it; etc.
By virtue of being ranged attackers, the Hunters also have far greater freedom of positioning. They get to shoot the monster from a distance for safety, and when someone gets focused they back off - while being supported from range and while the REST of their team continues to damage the monster. This is why the Monster is forced to try and knock Hunters around to break their LOS to each other as part of taking someone down. This also means the Monster must be active in moving close to attack/engage the Hunters - it’s taking damage as long as it is within the hunters’ LOS during its approach. Consider RTS games and FPS games, a moving unit versus a stationary ranged one - melee knight approaching a bunch of archers, or someone walking into a sniper’s vision. You might make it to your target, but you’ve suffered during the approach. One reason Hunters hate the Kraken so much is that it is the sole range-focused Monster; and suddenly THEY are on the receiving end of needing to be careful of being in ITS LOS, the same way all the other Monsters have to watch the Hunters. Don’t like how Kraken can corpse-deny with ranged basic attacks? Compare it to Torvold/Hank/Anyone pushing a body-camping melee monster; same thing. When a Hunter says “Kraken = Quit”, they are proving the advantage inherent in the Hunters’ ranged attacks and abilities against all OTHER monsters.
There is a reason so much discussion focus is given to Monsters using 3 points into skills at stage 1/2 - because when hunters can cover for each other so strongly and punish engaging Monsters, the Monster’s only viable tactic is burst damage to take down a hunter before the rest of their team has time to react. I bold that part for emphasis as it’s the crux of the Monster vs Hunter strength discussion - If Monsters were stronger/easier to play than Hunters, you would not see such an emphasis on Bursty monsters - even a good Monster has to be concerned with letting a good team of Hunters have time/focus/opportunity to react and start supporting each other as combat begins.
The monster also has four points (five with Daisy, possibly Six with a Shield Drone, and we’re ignoring survivors/colonists/ebonstar extras for now) to keep track of during combat - you can’t just focus a single target, you need to be aware of what the others are doing. Is Lennox on you building up her plasma lance and needing a swipe to reset it? Is Daisy running for the hunter you just incapped? Where did the cloaking support go? Did Slim just throw a healing drone on a downed hunter? Smelling helps, but when Slim is in play that gets taken away and you REALLY need to try and keep track of everything. In contrast, Hunters just have to watch and follow a very large, visible, loud target that is either attacking them or their teammates, with the help of map pings, outline & tracking tools, etc. Their focus is much narrower, more specific, and singular. The worst hunter focus must be split is when a dome/combat occurs near large wildlife - tyrant/megamouth/sloth/nomad - and those both can be killed to remove the threat or can often be avoided entirely.
Okay, that’s far more longwinded of a writing than I’d originally planned; but I think this helps answer the question. A lot of this gameplay comparison theory should probably have its own thread somewhere - probably DOES, just I dont know where it is
Hope this helps!
Would probably help if people stated their preferred role too as there is going to be 4 hunter players to 1 monster player.
Read above and you shall see O,o
Hunters are OP af. cabot lazarus_2 hyde griffin_2
Hunter is harder.
That makes no sense at all, how can it be op and harder?
Monster is harder hands down
AGREEEEEEED. DAM that was well written my friend. this started on twitch and I never got on the forums to talk about it lol.
ok so ill try not to repeat what @Sidewaysgts and @Wrecker said. as i agree with all of that. especially the point of RTS type games. Ill bring another example. League of legends. Kiting is the #1 style of fighting. no one stands still and takes the beating of a melee unit. they kite back and keep shooting/using moves.
another point not mentioned is the dropship rule. as a monster against a good team. the chances of 2 hunters left splitting in opposite directions is almost garunteed. this mean that, 2 strikes or 1, the hunters DO heal back their mistakes so long as the other members carry them and let them fight again. I cant count how many times im on the cusp of winning just to see the dropship timer hit zero. all my permanent health is gone with no way to get it back. yet they just went from 1000 hp (last hunter alive) to 4000 hp (4 hunters all with 2 strikes). again spread out and working together to support each other.
The next part i will talk about is pressure. id say 80% of the game the pressures on the monster. sure hunters can feel stressed cuz they have to win. but chasing a stage 1 monster, whether dome evolving or not, is not a high pressured situation at all. in fact your brain can easily relax while hunting a monster. all your doing is traversing. especially with an abe comp.
meanwhile stage 1, the evolve, and stage 2 are all high pressure scenarios where you dont know what your opponent is trying to do yet. will they dome evolve? will they shave my armor down then throw the dome? will they hold the dome no matter what? a griffin on your back with a well traversed hunter team has to be the highest pressure situation of them all. you cant breathe your constantly fleeing for your life.
now i understand that once a mistake is capitalized then the pressure goes up on the hunter team. or arguably when a hunters hp gets really low the pressure turns on. but when the dome first goes up, or the stage 3 fight commences. hunters have no pressure. they know that if they follow the rules of combat, LOS, use moves to save one another. no one will ever die.
last part ill talk about, something we argued on here a LONG LONG time ago before the game was even in alpha. weight distribution.
hunters are 4 members. when they lose. its easy to say, oh we did this wrong. you can pinpoint small mistakes for each member but there may have been multiple examples. like trapper could have not missed the dome, support needs to stay in LOS. medic needs to HB more members. but its all a group effort to get better. they split 50% of the teams win into 4 members. aka 12.5% of the weight.
monster on the other hand. will only get critiqued, blamed, or praised for carrying thier team. in a Bo5. monster can potentially carry the team alone, winning 2 matches and the tie breakers. thats 60% of the weight ALONE. there is no blaming, or saying oh if “we” did this we would have won. the pressure of losing round 1 heading into round 2 is alot higher. the TLDR of this part is, " I lost always hits harder than WE lost"
welp thats all i got for now.
As somebody who plays a lot of both,
Hunter with randoms is hard, as its difficult to coordinate. With a team of people I know its easy cause I only have 1 role to fill and I trust that the rest of the team will do their roles.
Monster vs randoms is beyond easy 90% of the time, only time I need to try is against actual teams and then is where it becomes difficult.
Personally I think monster is harder in high level because you essentially need to do the job of 4 people and it is also very difficult to get away from coordinated teams and even if you do you’re going to take a lot of damage getting domed at stage 2.
Because I make no sense thats why it’s harder.
Id say monsters have the harder time. If they dont burst support or medic down when they finally choose to engage then its gg. Theres no coming back from the amount of permanent hp dmg youd take for going in and not getting valuable strikes. Hell even if you get a strike on Hank, hes good enough to still make sure his team stays up long enough for you to take more damage.
Couple that with the fact that the current meta is stage 2 doming where the supposed ‘advantage’ shouldve put you on even terms with hunters gets negated when you lose half your health for going for it, monsters have it rough.
This makes no sense.Yes i can play Lazarus, yes i can use his glove.Does that mean that the monster is retarded-blind?Even with Hank’s shield Caira,Slim still die.You think Lazarus with that bad healing can survive?
Flawless Monster is MUCH MORE easier.The problem is that the balance right now doesn’t allow it and doesn’t reward flawless monster plays.
Assuming that the game is perfectly balanced and all that stuff then yeah Hunters is much harder.Simply because 4 minds must work together, that’s enough.But with the current balance towards monsters it really doesn’t matter
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