Got demoted in rank for winning


#1

Its in the title. I got demoted from Gold Destroyer down to Silver Expert for WINNING a match.

… WHAT?


Lost monster rank for winning a game 4 times
Stage 2: Deranked after winning
#2

Thanks for reporting this!

This behavior is a by-product of the rating system we’re using, which is known as “Glicko” (a variation on the more commonly known “Elo” you may have heard of). We assign each player a Glicko rating, which is a summary metric that quantifies your skill at Evolve. After each match, we update your Glicko rating based on what happened in that match. In general, when you win, your Glicko rating will go up, and when you lose, your Glicko rating will go down. Win/loss is the primary criteria used to update Glicko rating, but individual performance also plays a role, especially when our uncertainty about your Glicko rating is high.

Before the Stage 2 update, we had modified the Glicko rating algorithm to include a +1 – regardless of outcome – as there are instances where a win can result in a Glicko rating decreasing or a loss can result in it increasing. Since we were also exposing the Glicko rating to players after every match, we thought it’d be a poor player experience to win and see your rating decrease, however the actual outcome of this change turned out to be much worse.

Players would play match after match, and wins would result in nearly negligible gains in rating, then a single loss would send their Glicko rating plummeting, making it feel like all the past matches were a waste of time. This is due to the Glicko rating algorithm being unable to fully work as it was intended – which is not a progression system where you are always moving upwards; it’s purely a rating system, therefore fluctuations are to be expected as it’s a complicated formula to calculate true skill, rather than permit you to climb continuously upwards like a ladder system found in other Ranked modes. With us removing the +1 modifier, we’re now using a more pure form of Glicko than we ever have been.

Moving forward, we’re going to be monitoring this change to make sure it’s continuing to behave as expected of a rating system, and making the adjustments we can if needed. We’d like to make some major changes to how Ranked works, however this is deeply tied into a much larger matchmaking update that’ll take some significant time to develop, but it is on Stage 2’s long-term roadmap. As we get closer to it, we’ll be able to talk about it in more detail.


I got demoted in rank after a win wtf
#3

Wait, what? I thought you said before that only winning/losing counts.

How do you factor in “individual performance”? It doesn’t say anthing if the medic has healed 100k. It just says that the match was long…
Or do you mean “individual performance” for the whole hunter team? Like “How close was the match? How many strikes did the winning hunter team get? How many health did the winning monster lose?”


#4

I would also like more clarification on this. Since im losing rank on everything now regardless of me winning.


#5

These links might be able to explain what you are seeing better.

http://www.englishchess.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/The_Glicko_system_for_beginners1.pdf

http://www.glicko.net/glicko/glicko.pdf

http://www.glicko.net/glicko/glicko2.pdf

@LilTrashPanda


#6

Also keep in mind that because we don’t have a lot of people in Ranked yet it is probably uncertain about where you really should be in the Glicko rating.


Ranked Info: Rating drops after winning or increases after losing
#7

Where were you at when I had this problem months ago? I was legit accused of lying when I told people here I lost 20 points for a win. Lol :stuck_out_tongue:


#8

Must have taken my break around then possibly. Oh well thanks @dysa72 for the info! So this is actually meant to be a thing? Because getting rank back up is gonna huge chore.


#9

Nice to see I’ve not been talking crap by telling people that it’s a legitimate product of the ranking system :smiley:

My best advise is to not try to get your rank back up. Just play, do your best, and the system will rank you where you need to be (after I think it’s about 50 games if I read the stuff about the ranking system properly). Ranking is a system that determines your rank for you, it’s not something you work up through :wink:


#10

Its a nice sentiment but honestly I have too much pride to not work my way back up.


#11

@dysa72 @Shaners from what I understand, in the Glicko system, there is no way to go down in ranking if you win a match, or vice-versa.

Some players have asked, “what are the individual performance metrics that are being used in the calculations”?

If you don’t want to share these details, I would guess that one reason is that players might exploit that information to manipulate their rankings - or just change their playstyle to focus heavily on doing what needs to be done to maintain high performance metrics. This is an understandable reason to not share such details.

I making a guess here, but if the metrics use numbers like “damage done” or “healing done” or “# of domes launched” - it might have a negative impact on players who have short matches, and generally reward players for playing extended matches that go deep into overtime.

If you were somehow able to study players who did well in ESL tournaments or who are in gold rankings, and see what they do differently than players who are low on the rankings, you might be able to find data to use on improving this system.

Maybe higher skilled players have higher keystrokes per minute, or how much time they spend in close proximity to their teammates, or maybe %of monster total health pool reduced per dome. Just an idea.

I know that performing such research can take a lot of time and resources. Google did a similar study to find out how to build the perfect team: https://rework.withgoogle.com/blog/five-keys-to-a-successful-google-team/
Google spent years and millions of dollars on this research. Of course TRS doesn’t have the same amount of resources to do such a massive study, but maybe benefits could be gained by performing a smaller, cheaper study?

I understand that this is a very challenging and complicated thing to implement into the matchmaking algorithm, and I thank you guys for making an effort to try and implement it!


#12

And your pride gets damaged by a single match? C’mon man, you’re better than that! Get back into gear and start killing :smiley:


#13

I’m guessing that as well. But relying on something to be kept secret to be secure is not a secure strategy. Furthermore, I cannot think of any measurement that would truly be able to measure “individual performance” reliably.

I’m pretty sure all those “won game, lost points” events are due to a shady “individual performance” measurement. The devs can keep it a secret and I will continue to draw my own conclusions or they can be open about it and get feedback from the community. Their choice. :wink:

Even if they won’t share any details, it would be better to say so instead of just ignoring the very valid question. ^^


#14

For winning a single match and the game thinking I dont belong at my rank.

Even when as assault I did well over 10k damage, and if I remember correctly the monster in this case gave up as well.


#15

Nothing in this world is flawless. Besides the game is currently in Beta. It only makes sense for them to test things out and see what happens. Don’t let something this petty ruin a game for you :slight_smile:


#16

Same here, because …


#17

Jesus. Now we beat Monkeybot and I got barely 2 points towards the next rank as Silver Master.

In fact I got demoted by one rank on the leaderboards. :T


#18

O.O

By Monkeybot and his team? (was Grizzle in it?) Good job! But yeah weird that it did it. Maybe because they are Silver so technically you barely won against silver players and that is why it demoted you.

Still quite the achievement :slight_smile: )


#19

Monkey was playing Monster. He is Gold 4.


#20

Ah ok! Yeah he is quite a good monster player as well. Just be happy it wasn’t Deanimate or Fresh :wink: