Goliath power abuse (Leap Smash + Rock Throw) again


#1

Do read that this is NOT the exploit where the Goliath is Leap Smashing with the Rock in his hands, in this exploit he actually hits the ground first followed by a rock immediately after skipping half the animation.

A lot of Goliath players have the power to down a player in two seconds. One of our teammates play’s customs as monster against us and he actually can bring quite some thrilling matches against us. Yesterday we let him play Goliath and lost the first few matches against him. We were actually quite shocked to see our trapper go down in 2 seconds straight. A stage 2 Goliath downing one of our best hunters in two moves. This can happen sure, but shortly after that another person goes down, same trick. Full health to nothing in two seconds. He ended up winning the fight so I asked him if he was power abusing, he said yes

The trick he does is Leap Smash and spam the Rock Throw button like a idiot. When leap smash hits the ground, the rock follows pretty much right after it skipping half of the animation time. While the player is still being knocked back by the leap smash he gets a rock in it’s face and dies, if he manages to survive that combo, one melee hit will finish the job. The same monster player player does this in domes and manages to kill any player he hits with this combo. If you don’t go with Sunny or Hank against him you, you can’t do anything against it.

We then asked him to stop abusing (we’ve seen this trick a LOT in skirmish) and guess what? We actually stood a chance again. Goliath damage output suddenly was normal again. We could actually dodge again.

Please please fix this, Goliath Rock throw is already a powerhouse, pretty unfair to make it a exploitable chain attack with the second power house attack Leap Smash.


#2

Are you sure he’s actually doing it faster than intended? This is one of Goliath’s combos that I do regularly. Leap smash into rock throw, for a 2-hit kill, which takes about 2 seconds as you say. It fails if the hunter flies too far from the leap slam, since his jetpack will recover while he is in the air and the rock is still coming at him. If you get leap slammed and knocked into a wall, the goliath should be able to hit the rock 95% of the time. To avoid it, you need to at least be in the air when you get leap slammed (assuming you can’t dodge the full aoe), so that you take less damage and get knocked further away from the goliath.

Edit: I don’t see how this is really any different than vortex into lighting strike, except goliath’s combo is much harder/less reliable to do.


#3

As far as I know it works you actually ignore half the animation of the rock throw. You basically hit the ground with leap smash and the rock flies away half a second later. It’s not the animation where he leans in to the ground, picks up the rock, aims it and then throws it. If he did that the hunter could actually get away.

My problem with this combo that if you know how to do this you can get 2-move strikes in every time. Sneak Pounce becomes obsolete if you can 2-move combo any hunter to his death. And our monster kinda does.

Behemoth can do the same thing at stage 3, and stage 3 only. Ignoring wall completely you can put lava bomb down, tongue grab the hunter and then fissure at his location. Those are 3 moves at stage 3 giving up your defensive capabilities completely and there is a risk of missing the tongue. Now the Goliath can do this trick at stage 2. Imagine the same trick with the Sloth buff… My god, GG. It isn’t balanced since it takes out a complete factor to get out of it. Even Kraken needs to land the combo, there is still enough time to evade at least. With Goliath in your face that kinda becomes a problem at times.

  • If they are planning to take out the Behemoth rolling heavy attack spam, than this should be fixed as well. If a Behemoth downing players in 1,5 second is overpowered, than this should be the same as well. There is no counter for this “skill” you basically get hit and you are down.

#4

It’s different because Goliath has specific attack animations for both. The reason Rock Throw is so powerful is because it’s supposed to be pretty easy to dodge, but there’s several ways to negate the entire animation and just do the damage instantly. Kraken’s Vortex is just a slow moving projectile that’s launched instantly, but Lightning Strike has a specific attack animation that holds him in place briefly. If Kraken could launch both attacks instantaneously it would be the same thing. (He can let out a Lightning Strike pretty quick, but it’s up to you to dodge the Vortex). Monsters already do huge amounts of damage with attacks. Rock Throw damage can down a 2-strike Hunter instantly, and it’s also bugged in another way that makes Hunters take double damage, which can one-hit full health Hunters. Stacking that kind of damage on top of the other damage with no chance to recognize & avoid what the Monster is doing is broken/bugged/unbalanced.


#5

I timed both using video capture. They’re both 1.65~ second animations. Leap smash doesn’t affect it.


#6

[quote=“Silverborn, post:3, topic:51582, full:true”]As far as I know it works you actually ignore half the animation of the rock throw. You basically hit the ground with leap smash and the rock flies away half a second later. It’s not the animation where he leans in to the ground, picks up the rock, aims it and then throws it. If he did that the hunter could actually get away.
[/quote]
I just tested various ways of throwing rock in a solo match and I have concluded that the rock throw is faster by at most .2 seconds if used after leap slam but it’s difficult to say by how much without a video. I didn’t need to spam it though, I just simply pressed rock throw after hitting the ground. So sorry for doubting you. When I threw a rock by it self (with no other skills), he held the rock above and behind his head before throwing it. However, if you throw a rock after using leap slam, he doesn’t bring the rock all the way behind him (except maybe for 1-2 frames where it is flashed briefly) and then chucks it forward maybe .1 to .2 seconds sooner. Not really sure why this is the case, but it may be helpful for the devs to have videos of each animation in slow motion.

I’m not gonna wait 2 tenths of a second before using rock throw after leap slam just to be fair, though. We should be able to use an ability as soon as the 1st one is finished, but for whatever reason rock throw is executed faster when used after leap slam.

I think you have lightning strike / vortex backwards here in your last sentence. Either way, it is pretty agreed upon that you cannot dodge lightning strike very easily, especially after getting stunned by a vortex. It isn’t as much damage as leap smash + rock throw, but it is easier to do and kraken has ways to damage you with ranged attacks / banshee mines before doing this combo. Lightning strikes tracking speed is getting nerfed soon.


#7

Can you upload both videos of each variation? I tested it and noticed that the rock throw animation was different if used immediately after leap slam. As explained in my post above, the rock wouldn’t go as far behind the goliath’s head or for as long.


#8

No, I don’t have them backwards. Vortex is a projectile instantly fired from his body that moves fairly slowly straight forward. Lightning strike has an attack animation where he crouches up while he targets them. If you don’t dodge the Vortex he can hit you with the Lightning Strike without much targeting. They can be combo’d in any order, but Lightning is really easy to dodge if they’re not juggled (it takes a second to prime, jetpack dodge away right before it hits). The targeting used to be a lot worse in the beta from what I understand - it tracked across the screen as fast as you could move your mouse.


#9

Vortex is pretty much impossible to dodge if you’re close to the kraken, because as you said it comes out very fast and has a big aoe. With lightning strike, you have time to move / get behind stuff while it is charging up. So why are you saying that you have time to dodge the vortex, but no time to dodge the lightning strike?

edit: I don’t want to argue about this with you since it is off topic. Let’s just stick to goliath in this thread ok.


#10

You misread it (twice now). I said Lightning Strike is hard to dodge after you’re hit with the Vortex and juggled. In your last post you add the caveat that Vortex is hard to dodge “if you’re close to the Kraken” which is pretty rare. Both are pretty easy to dodge alone.

But my whole point was that ability combos are very powerful, and negating the chance to avoid them is broken, like with Rock Throw.


#11

The animations are different, like you said the rock doesn’t go behind him when you do it after leap smash. The durations are the same though. I timed it based on when the icon goes grey, and then has a notch showing it’s cooling down.

The videos aren’t that useful unless you can get exact time, which youtube doesn’t let you do. I can upload them if you really want tho.


#12

My original comparison was meant to be that you can dodge the leap slam, to avoid the follow up rock throw chain. Or simply get hit by both, like in the case of being hit by vortex + lightning strike. Which you seem to agree upon that these abilities can be combo’d (and are similar in that manner).

Keep in mind that I made the first post thinking that there wasn’t a bug with the animations that gave Goliath an advantage. I still think vortex is very easy to hit when you’re close and dodgeable by hunters from far away, but for leap slam, the air time is mostly the same, so the distance doesn’t matter. Either way, both abilities are dodgeable, with vortex less so, (when you’re close).

Did you compare the animations/duration using individual frames? If this is a bug, the icon / cooldown may not be resetting at the correct time as well. We might have to look at the monster instead, frame by frame.


#13

[quote=“esvban, post:12, topic:51582”]
Did you compare the animations/duration using individual frames?
[/quote]I sort of did both. The animation and icon appeared to line up in both cases. I used the icon though because the animation is a bit weird towards the end (rock glitches through goliath’s arm) and almost impossible to tell when it starts between all the fire from leap smash, or even just normal rock through.


#14

Hmm… Well a different way to test it could be to record the audio and throw the rock for each clip from the same location to the same location (for example leap smash in front of a wall and throw a rock into the wall, then throw a rock by it self at the wall. There’s both a sound for picking up the rock, and a sound for the rock hitting the wall, which to me the time between sounded shorter when using leap slam first. Still hard to say, though.


#15

There are 2 bugs/exploits involving Leap Smash and Rock Throw. Both are easily reproduced once you know how to do them. The Devs are aware of them and are working on fixing them.


#16

How are these actually done? do you rebind them to mouse or something? I’ve tried(not much) to do it and can’t seem to. Woulda thought it was like jump-rocking in l4d but can’t seem to pull it off


#17

I normally do the same combo but it doesn’t cut any animation. Weird. Might be a bug in his end


#18

I don’t want to divulge as it is already bad enough that some individuals embrace these expoits.


#19

You do know that when you Rock Throw, that you can click the melee button to launch it really quick in order to try and hit an evading hunter, or to hit a good group and damage multiple of them. If your trapper couldn’t see that he was Leap Smashing and couldn’t stop spamming his jetpack before the fight and couldn’t evade, that’s his fault man :confused:


#20

nvm, see it can only be done online