Goliath needs slight tuning. (Competitive level)


#1

So I think Goliath is good at the moment, but for competitive level play he tends to lack a bit more than the other monsters. It also shows because most people don’t bring Goliath to competitive play. Here is the only thing I think Goliath needs at the moment as a quick fix.

Leap smash: a very inconsistent skill which tends to lack against good players. When using this skill I think Goliath needs to land quicker when falling because it’s too easy to dodge. Also I think this skill could be more useful if the cool down was decreased slightly. I main Goliath and am part of a competitive team so I mean it when I say I don’t even bother with it.


#2

I agree, I may not be competitive but leap smash is really lacking sometimes


#3

I agree leap smash is too buggy and slow to bother with at high level games.


#4

Ikr, it just feels so super slow. The hunters can go get takeout before I land.:joy:


#5

cant really comment since i dont use leap smash much as the other moves


#6

For a long time I avoided leap smash because it was so easy to dodge. Using it again for a while it showed promise, but I’ve had quit e a bit of trouble with it lately: good players and teams are rarely in a position to be hit, and its slow speed makes for a terrible combo. It’s cc is miserable and it’s very prone to bugging on nearby terrain , causing you to leap straight up. I agree that it’s speed needs to be slightly faster and the cc dropped by a couple seconds. Compare damage rates and cool downs to the kraken and it’s almost laughable; if it wasn’t for rock throw the goliath wouldn’t compare at all.


#7

I love Leap Smash. But I do agree, if we buff Goliath, it should be quicker or have a harder knock-back.

I manage with it though, I’ve gotten pretty good at landing it even though its fairly buggy.


#8

Its best in caves, the ceiling hits your head and launches you straight into the ground, no escaping that :stuck_out_tongue:


#9

When I get harpooned next to hunters I use it. It’s like an immediate explosion around me.

Literal death.


#10

I disagree on those changes, Leap Smash is a great tool for shifting focus and doesn’t need to be easier to land or use more frequently - a Charge Leap Smash Goliath is incredibly mobile and disruptive.

I could maybe support a small damage and knockback buff, though, maybe contingent on less melee knockback to cut down on some of the crazy single target focus Goliath is capable of.

Personally I’d tweak Fire Breath a bit to have roughly a 30% longer cool-down and less afterburn time with the damage compressed into that time - it is just a bit too good and too frequent at countering cloaks at the moment.


#11

Personally I think firebreath is perfect how it is.


#12

Nerfing fire breath’s cooldown will kill Goliath. Sorry, but that’s a bad idea.

FB is his only effective way of clearing deployables. It’s cooldown is to keep destroying what Buckets and Markov’s place to kill him. Nerf that and bam Goliath is going to be denied big time. Less after-burn time I can agree with though, compressing the damage will make FB more bursty.

Leap Smash like you said, is amazing for capitalizing ontop of a previously used skill. When I rock throw someone off I cliff I feel like superman leap smashing right after them and crushing them. It’s amazing. It’s also great for ambush and initiating. Yet, it is weird and buggy at times.


#13

The uptime on the burn is too spammy at the moment, in my opinion.

I’d prefer it need to be used more tactically for its anti-cloak function while being a slightly burstier damage tool.


@Vexille

He also has Rocks to clear them, and Sentry Guns can be cleared with Leap Smash and Charge.

You may be right though, afterburn time may be the better thing to hit.


True on Leap Smash being weird at times, sometimes I’ve had trouble getting it to go exactly where I wanted.


#14

If the after burn was nerfed Goliath would be very very bad. Great players who are cloaked and burning still can be extremely evasive. If firebreath was nerfed in anyway the Goliath would become useless. It’s quite amusing how easy it is to abuse terrain against Goliath.


#15

Leap smash does need to be looked at. If you are close to someone and used it you’ll just end up floating in the air a bit then landing


#16

To clarify I’d reduce the duration of the afterburn, but compress the damage into the smaller duration.

Same damage, less cloak reveal time.


Its not really possible to be evasive in a cloak while fire particles are totally negating it.

I’d still support some kind of attack while climbing to help hit Hunters skirting around an edge.


#17

Rocks only clear one mine though, and compared to how quickly Markov can replace them that’s not going to do much as apposed to the damage you could have done with that rock. I don’t know about Bucket turrets as, like you said, are destructible with the other abilities.

Hitting the after-burn will be a both a nerf and a buff. Sure, you see the cloaked support less, but good monster players can still find him no matter what, and the faster damage will help kill targets better. I find this a great idea IMO.
Also what’s the duration right now @Galgus ?

@heidnu . We’re technically not nerfing fire breath. By reducing the duration you don’t reduce the damage, the damage gets compressed so the damage is more prominent in a shorter amount of time.

Say its duration is 5 seconds and it does 10 damage per second, meaning 50 after-burn.
Reduce the duration to 2 seconds, you do 25 damage per second, still equaling 50 after-burn damage.
(Now I’m not saying make the duration so low its useless, but this is just an analogy, it could be tuned like a second or two down. We still need that window to reveal cloaked enemies.)

Technically we make flame breathe better by allowing Goliath’s to kill targets quicker. Which is what every Goliath wants to see right? That support cant run if he’s dead!


#18

I believe they hit in a splash, so it is feasible that packed Mines could be cleared simultaneously.

The arm time nerf also made it less important for Monsters to be able to clear them quickly when they are set, in my opinion.


Bucket Turrets are destructible by attacks and abilities, but take more than one attack.

Personally I’d prefer them to be much frailer with 1.5X-2X their current stubby range, but that is off-topic.


True on the buff an nerf, but I don’t think it would be guaranteed that good Monsters would find the Support quickly without a reveal.

Or at least, if they were, there would be something seriously wrong with the mechanic.


Eh, I know the duration by feel and experience, not hard numbers. Not sure.


#19

I guess I’m the only one who thinks Goliath is perfect for where it is at the moment. His whole kit is well balance. Leap Smash I feel doesn’t really need tweaking, if the hunter dodges it then you didn’t aim it properly or time it accordingly.

I mean for most of my Goliaths games I have, I always go 3 Flame Breathe, 3 Leap, and 3 Rock Throw and do fine against pubs and premade teams. I am only speaking from the PS4 Evolve side, so I don’t know if there is a slight ping issue involve in this.

Don’t believe Goliath needs a buff or nerf in any of his kit because as of right now he has been in the Evolve development for the longest time and is great overall.


#20

Its doesnt exactly need tweaking, it needs to be fixed, ive had times where id try to leap smash off a building, didnt move, yet the area i was meant to hit just explodes
Like
Wat
He just has some minor bugs around him, other than that hes golden