Full Thoughts On: Community Challenges and Rewards

stage2

#1

Similar to my previous thread: “Full Thoughts On: Deepest Dark”; I will go into depth on my thoughts on this challenge, primarily upon what was done in a way that can be improved. I like this concept for threads and I’d say it’s quite possible that I’ll continue with them as long as Devs such as @mizx acknowledges them and even comments on them. (Thanks for that buddy :slight_smile:)

Anyways, enough of the formalities and onto the actual thread however allow me to preface my post with the fact that I did not participate in this weekend more than a handful of games so most of my points come from the account of others and my observations and inferences.


Originally this thread was focused primarily on the “Deepest Dark” community challenge however I’ve decided upon changing it to the underlying issue of the “Community Challenge” concept as a whole as well as the Rewards as a whole.

Starting with the concept of “Community Challenges”, as we all know we failed this community challenge, we didn’t even get so far as halfway through the challenge, we couldn’t even get to the 66.6k mark for the “Night Hunter” Bucket weapon skin but why did we fail? I think it’s for a number of reasons starting with how the challenge was presented.


###Presentation:
First thing that should definitely be improved is the name of the challenge, “Deepest Dark Community Challenge”; we were set up to fail just by the name. Many people who do not visit these forums on a regular basis such as us will likely not realize that this challenge only requires the community to play co-op and not on Deepest Dark. This likely caused a significant number of players constantly skipping and backing out of lobbies in an attempt to find the map and increase numbers. Unfortunately it was not made nearly as clear as it should’ve that this was a co-op challenge, not a “Deepest Dark” challenge. A far better name would’ve been:

“Co-Op Community Challenge”

It’s extremely simple and gets directly to the point, you know there’s a challenge for the community and it’s involved with the new co-op mode. When you get in game all you see is a banner proclaiming the name of the challenge and what you must do however it is overlaid on a “Deepest Dark” banner. Using all available clues and information from that it is reasonable for many players to be confused and to have misinterpreted this as a challenge meant solely for the Deepest Dark map.

Presentation here definitely has room for improvement on future challenges however people learn from mistakes and now with this challenge perhaps TRS has learned to make these challenges far clearer if they actually want them to be completed.

(That sounds like I’m placing full blame here on TRS however given that the community has no say in the matter of naming a challenge this is a learning experience for TRS )


###Bugs and “Fun” Factor:

The challenge was focused on co-op exclusively and from what I’ve heard, from the latest patches the Monsters are the cousins of Sonic and are uncatchable making matches last around 2x longer than they should and the farm unbearable. On top of this the Monsters have terribly derpy AI and are incredibly easy to kill when caught and therefore this endless chase that ends in an easy boss fight causes the mode to be extremely unfun.

I think that you should’ve spent far more time testing the changes and making sure things were not as broken as they were. This made farm unbearable and the fun of it all was greatly ruined. The next time you plan a challenge please try to make it bullet-proof before putting it under heavy gunfire. The mode was clearly broken this weekend according to many accounts and as such many felt the need to not bother with the challenge.


###Co-op Exclusively

This is mainly a problem due to fun. When you make something co-op exclusive you are cutting Monster players out of the equation. This is not only a problem because they then have less content and are just plainly missing but because they are missing the players rely on a flawed AI system to do everything. When the Monster controls the pacing of the match it’s far easier to have a player be in the Monster slot than it would be to have an AI that just runs. Had we had this weekend of 100k matches in regular Hunt we would’ve smashed the challenge because many more people enjoy fighting Monsters and many Monsters enjoy actually having something to play.


###Rewards:

This subject is a bit tricky as I’ll be delving into the past, current, and future of the game. I understand that with the new F2P model and all TRS doesn’t want to lock anyone out of anything (as evident by challenges and encouragement of purchasing copies for Founder Status); they don’t like locking content or exclusivity and this is known to us, however there needs to be a line drawn somewhere.

I get your generosity TRS and I love it, really do but for the sake of Evolve stop it. There is such a thing as being too generous and that’s currently how you are. With each new character they’ve been available for free to non-founders whether by the Daily Login system or a challenge or what-have-you. If you plan on making money off of Evolve you need to think long-term and not short-term. Making content and giving it away right off the bat is not a way to keep players interested, make them work for it; Evolve is F2P now and grinding is a part of all F2P games, without it the game is dead and the Developers have to find new jobs.

Please stop being generous. The XP is one thing since eliting a character doesn’t do really anything for you so the 10x XP we just had is not really an issue however the 10x keys was. When you plan on making a living off of constantly being able to add to the game and make an income then you need to do two things.

  1. Change the pricing of purchasable things.

  2. Don’t give away keys.

For the first point you need to increase the cost of Hunters and Monsters and decrease the cost of full-body skins. Buying a skin is nearly as pricey as buying a Hunter and while you can farm that sort of money out in a matter of an hour or two it’s still ridiculous that buying a cosmetic is nearly as much as the Hunter itself and that said Hunters and Monsters are extremely cheap when you consider that you can make around 10k keys in two or so hours. So you need to increase that price and make skins less pricey.

On top of this a 2x key bonus is the max you should ever do; again XP is something else since that gets you nothing and still requires you to farm so you could do as many 10x XP as you want but with 10x keys? I barely played that weekend and amassed 70k keys. Actually more, almost 100k. I can only imagine what people who have played and farmed that weekend would’ve gotten. So only ever do 2x or maybe 3x.

Remember, Evolve is a cash cow, that’s how all F2P games are. We appreciate how you’re doing everything so differently however we worry for it’s longevity when content gets pushed out and then just given away. What do you expect players to spend keys on??


With this I will close up my thread. I’ve become suddenly tired and I’m really unsure of how coherent this post is anymore since I’ve jumped around several times and rewritten entire areas multiple times. If you have any questions or feedback please leave them below and I will try my best to clarify my thoughts and/or thank you for your feedback.


#2

I agree with the OP, although I don’t think the Co-Op mode can be considered bugged, although I agree that the monsters strengh was definitely outside of the dome.

The biggest problem i saw is a combination of:

  1. Founders are more informed as new players because they are more active in the forums
  2. Co-Op vs AI is less fun than regular Hunt vs Player
  3. Founders won’t profit from the high award, because they get them anyway

So those who know of the conditions of the event best, don’t actually have to play it.

I personally (being a founder) would have zero issues if I had to unlock Character Variants with keys, instead of getting them for free. I say thank you TRS, but I wouldn’t mind having to grind them out.


#3

The only gripe with the mode so far is that if there is a community reward involved, the map should pop more often. Makes sense, right ?


#4

The challenge didn’t revolve around the map. That’s the problem, they presented it as such and pissed off a lot of people when they saw it so rarely and caused an extreme game deficit from people trying to play the map just for the challenge when really it was any map.


#5

Oh I got that, the page said ‘coop’ games in general. I got that every map was eligible but I didn’t see Deepest Dark pop up very often. And it was the centerpiece of the challenge so it would make sense for it to appear more frequently.


#6

yeah, challenge status should be shown ingame.

But i disagree with the last part. Evolve is a beta on PC, i am pretty certain that nobody cares for microtransactions on pc.
Console is where the money will come from and there will be changes in the pricing structure.


#7

This is a well-put together post with a lot of good arguments, a couple of which I quite vehemently disagree with.

First off: I only had time to fit in a few Co-op games this weekend, but I didn’t seen any of the problems you inferred from complaints and enjoyed my rounds well enough considering the early state of the Co-op mode. Obviously, this is only my own limited personal experience and I cannot therefore state these bugs didn’t exist any more than you can, but from my experience it was fine and I would have kept playing a fair few more rounds if I had had the time. Point is, I personally think you probably should have left off the bits that seem based on hearsay in this post, because it just kind of weakens the overall argument.

I absolutely agree that the presentation of the event could have used much improvement. No question on that. Lack of awareness and far too much confusion over particulars.

Deepest Dark should have been more likely to come up in the rotation/guaranteed on first Co-op game you played once it was implemented/patched. That said, what in the world would be the point of running an event specifically to draw attention to/test out Co-op that lets you play something other than Co-op? The event didn’t exist just to give us players stuff, and expecting something being done as a test also be “bulletproof” seems a bit contradictory to me.

I find the bit about “making farm unbearable” amusing because “farm” is the worst and I firmly believe that if it’s happening to any real degree, the game design is already failing. Ideally, an event like this incentivizes people to try out/play more of a mode they would enjoy anyway for a period of time. If playing it for the event is any sort of “grind”, then yeah, the mode could very well be flawed, or the numbers just aren’t there to support the goals overall. That’s part of experimenting and testing.

I also do kinda worry about how generous the game is being with keys/unlocks in the sense that I wonder how much people will actually have to buy once the payment structure is in. I’m pretty sure Quantum Cara hasn’t been available in any way except for spending keys though? Maybe I missed it. That said:

I cannot statements like this and feel anything but violently ill. As a player, a good game keeps me interested; goddamn free to play grinding actually helps to ensure I won’t play or spend any money on your game at all. As far as I am concerned, what you say here: [quote=“10shredder00, post:1, topic:100924”]
Hunters and Monsters are extremely cheap when you consider that you can make around 10k keys in two or so hours. So you need to increase that price and make skins less pricey.
[/quote]
Is the exact inverse of how the game should be structured. Make the skins silly expensive, make the gameplay elements reasonable, and I’ll give you money because I enjoy the game, not TO enjoy the game. Or, give me the chance to pay a reasonable price for all the actual gameplay-affecting elements, and I’ll happily spend a few bucks as new characters etc. show up.

Maybe most free-to-play really does have to be as exploitative as you speak of here to make a profit. I dunno. I can only say that it definitely is a way to make sure you don’t get any money from me.


#8

Agreed, our bad. Though we did the same with overpowered and it was fine. A few questions came up but you guys were already ahead and it didn’t matter!

We tried something different and fun in celebration of deepest dark!

You got it!

True.

Hopefully can some day!


#9

What I didn’t like about the challenge was: the rewards, because I own 2/3 of it already.
The match making, still, doesn’t work proper and AI in Co-Op is a joke. So, I waited roughly 10 minutes to get a full lobby and I had to hope I will see the new map.
What I liked about it was the story telling, but that is not enough for me to repeat it again. Maybe, if you do something like this again, we can unlock a higher difficulty level every time we reach a stretch goal. That would keep me interested since it’s challenging and it feels better to get something after hard work