Fixing Behemoth Balance


#1

Long time spent arguing on the OPness or UPness of behemoth. I think the simple solution to this is to rework his play style via number changes. Behemoth is useless on rocky ground. We should change that by modifying air control (not a numbers Change) and increasing climb speed. This should be compensated by lowering damage or tumble potential,


#2

No. Behemoth needs less overall health (8/9/10) but regenerates more health when he evolves. This counters his toxic OP FT3 and encourages him to lose more health in battles. In exchange, he has shorter animations decreased by half, so his critical spot is only available for a shot time, and he makes up for the hidden critical by taking more damage because of his size. In competitive play critical shots are everywhere, so he gets less crit damage.

He does not need faster climb speed since fissure and tongue grab are great for any terrain damage. He would just fissure, climb up and then tongue grab, dealing a massive combo. No thank you.

He also needs all of his exploits fixed. He’s the most broken monster in the game.


#3

Have long felt behemoth needs (some degree of) air control while rolling around in ball form. Ping-ponging around is a rather annoying downside to his traversal- Especially when going quickly down hill. Its so easy to hit a pebble, get airborn, miss “a turn”, and land into a tree, and lose all your momentum. needing to memorize each and every individual bump, dip, and divet in the terrain to move around effectively is needless skill ceiling that adds a layer of frustration to behemoth that is completely unnecessary.

Id also love to see behemoth get some type of contextual acceleration on his roll- Something that looks at how fast he was moving <1 second ago, and gives him an acceleration buff based on how fast he was going beforehand. The idea being that if youre jutting along at full speed, bump into an obsidian grub, and lose all your speed- You can immediately start rolling again, and accelerate to full speed quickly, helping compensate for the time lost. Id also like to see his minimum roll speed equal to his standard ground speed, not lower than it. Again this would be just to cure some “frustration” every behemoth player deals with. Behemoth has one of the clunkiest traversals in the game.

And also strongly agree on the climb speed. I was actually under the impression he was getting a climb speed buff as well when goliath did- Was a bit let down when he didnt.

THAT said though- Im also aware that behemoth has some major ability changes coming with the next TU, so ill definitely wait to see where he goes first before continuing to think he needs any of this


#4

8/9/10 would mean he regeneratea 1 bar per evolution. Monsters gain as many bars as the difference between the total health of the two evolutions is.

Not saying this is a bad idea, just that it isn’t how the current system works


#5

How about… we see what changes they already made to him… before we jump to conclusions…


#6

Just stop.

We get it, your team is having trouble against Bob.
Maybe you should consider the vast majority of people on your platform who are steamrolling Bob instead of filling this thread with your bias just because you’ve had a few bad rounds in pubs.

I agree.


#7

I don’t have a dedicated team that I play with regularly. I jump in with friends if they need me to.

Stop with the assumptions.

Since when were opinions restricted on here? Whether you like it or not, I do have a problem with Behemoth. Sure, everyone else may steamroll him with hunters in the meta, but the fact of the matter is that there is no golden comp in this game. Only decent counters and skill. Thus not every comp will win againt Behemoth. Wanna say otherwise? Put your money where you mouth is and show me some actual evidence. Show me videos with every comp againt a decent Behemoth player. I guarantee that not every comp will work. Especially since there is probability that other monsters will be chosen.

I’ve never seen a decent Behemoth game, so shit on me all you want, but it won’t change my viewpoint on Behemoth. Now I’m sick of people bringing up me talking about Behemoth differently, so stop getting off topic. Either focus on the OP or move it to a new thread.


#8

Then how could this system where his HP pool is lowered by he maintains high health regen rate during evolutions?

I’m not a numbers guy, but I’m sure you can fill in the gaps I left.


#9

This dispute has run for too long across too many threads.
Is there like, a quick summary of what the issue is here?
Im so lost
:?


#10

the majority of Behemoth mains would argue the opposite due to the lack of feasibility in the current meta.
Thats the issue.

This is essentially “He Said She said” since there are no concrete numbers.
Stats/Telemetry and very effective at helping. I understand your concerns, and TRS has stated that they’ve taken steps to make him a more approachable monster from the Hunter perspective. I’ve listened to the majority of your posts and read quietly, however This isn’t the first, 2nd, or 3rd rant about bob, you’ve had…

I’ve spent some time with console players (where Behemoth has a very strong foothold), and most players that complain about BoB, and how he plays, dont understand proper spacing. I’ve worked with lobbies and taught them how to beat bob (regrettably…) and they no longer have issues. (This isn’t restricted to Silver +)

The Simple fact about Bob, is Respect.

Behemoth, across all tiers dominates in Close quarters combat against hunters with any of the following:

  1. Poor Positioning
  2. Poor JetPack Management
  3. Poor Teamwork
  4. Poor Mitigation

Now, depending on your skill level, and the skill level of the monster, you’ll notice that the higher the skill, the fewer of these that affect the hunter team, and the harder it is for the monster to capitalize. If you plan ahead, and communicate with your team whenever one of these area’s fail, you’ll notice your success will increase.

I could go into full details about the importance of these 4 mechanics, but there is enough content there, for several videos. If you want my honest advice, on how to help Low tier players Beat Behemoth…

Simple, Pick any of the following:

I left a little blurb, but essentially, those should help Low Silver/Bronze players defeat bob, but there is 1 last kicker. Use the Damage Resistance Perk, on ALL characters. You can thank me later.

Respect Bob, and you’ll begin to notice your win-rate increasing.


0 exploits, everything is operating as intended… Well Maybe not rock-wall, but we’ve been told, that this has been addressed…

People are upset because Behemoth has an extremely high win-rate on Console. Changes are coming, should be a great Quality of Life Improvement.


#11

most players that complain about BoB, and how he plays, dont understand proper spacing.

Yes! ;-; I’ve been trying to tell my fellow console players this for months now. You need to spread way the fuck out when you’re fighting Bob. You should always try to be on top of something, even if it isn’t that much higher than the ground. And you cannot get hit with tongue grab every fucking time it’s off cooldown. You can’t mess up and do all of that wrong and then complain about him being broken.

If you’re fighting a Goliath and your medic eats every rock and leap smash, they’re going to die very quickly. Does that make him an unstoppable god? No. So why is Behemoth any different? I really don’t understand why people have to be mean to poor Bob. He has strong combo game but it’s completely reliant on tongue-grab. Without it he’s like a cuddly stuffed animal.


#12

Exactly. Rockwalls damage is pretty minuscule, and mainly used for utility, so I save my Jetpack for his other moves. One burst is enough to dodge Tongue Grab, which is crucial, and staying up high can really screw up Bob’s game. If you’ve got to tank anything, tank Rockwall or Fissure, but people have to dodge Tongue Grab.
Love when my Medic stands in the Lava Bomb pools. Brilliant. :joy:


#13

What annoys me is that one damn Tongue Grab is enough to start the train of pain. If I manage to dodge 9/10 tongue grab I´d say this was a good game. But if this one TG hits, followed by a short sneakpounce into fissure into rollspam/lava bomb - you r dead (which is fine regarding the damage points of all attacks) and you can´t do nothin about it really. And if you (unpersonal) were support or medic the game is over. That really annoys me, the chaining-potential of those attacks, the autopilot which u switch on after you managed to hit one tongue. This is not possible with Goliath and that´s why I love playing against him…


#14

Yeah, that’s true. Which is imo the only thing that keeps him from being underpowered. He’s certainly an odd beast, because he really doesn’t fit anywhere on the scale of UP, Balanced, or OP.


#15

Balancing issues be like…


#16

I thought on the information everywhere on they said that bob was winning with to much health? I brought it up along time ago very one was like blah blah blah no way ur not doing it right shows what those people know that kinda shit is retarded .If the devs say it then its not bias it has evidence .I myself have destroyed stage 2 behemoths down to 2 bars of health when he goes stage 3 its like his given a whole new life and more power to back it up.


#17

I stated in this thread a behemoth fix that I see fit. Now yes, he is getting DR passive but he is still too Tanky at FT3 and I’m afraid that the TU9 changes won’t impact his toxic FT3 strat. Unreasonable? Yes- but after the Kelder mistake I’m having trust issues.

Secondly, I’m sick of people bringing up this topic about behemoth balance, especially in places where it should not be discussed. For example, this thread. @bigdaddyputtput made this thread to share his idea on a new behemoth balance, I stated my own opinion and talked about how some of his ideas wouldn’t work- at least I don’t see them benefitting him and/or causing more problems. Another example is of the rant thread, where I stated I hate his exploits and FT3 invincibility, then people turned a simple vent into a debate.

Emets my main medic, but there are outside problems, like what if you don’t dodge a tongue grab because you are out of Jetpack? That opens up the combo possibility of being downed.

But the hunters you stated fall under counter picking and knowing that the monster will be behemoth. Sure, Lennox can hit through RW but how good is she against Wraith or Kraken? How good is Emet against Kelder or Gorgon? This is my upmost point. There are hunters that will destroy behemoth, but there are also monsters who then destroy those same hunters.

There are other exploits.

1 is where Behemoth can fall and use an ability, but it triggers from where behemoth used the ability, not where he is after the animation. This means he can fall and avoid damage, disregarding TRS’s intent to plant him when he uses his abilities.

Another is where he can roll on top of downed hunters. Essentially he is rolling in place on top op downed hunters, and since his roll does damage the downed Hunter is constantly taking damage. It is impossible to outheal that constant stream to damage- even Val cannot outheal. Behemoth also takes less damage while rolling, so while he s grinding hunters into the ground, he is taking less damage while doing so, completely mitigating any punishment for body camping.

Every Behemoth game I play has these exploits abused. It’s something that I’m sick and tired of, and this is where most of my hate comes from, with FT3 as a close second. But if everyone hasn’t experienced these exploits, then that is why people ignore why I think he’s OP.

I’m upset because these Behemoth FT3 and exploits ruin any game I play against Behemoth. I’m also upset because he has a high winrate because of said reasons, whereas he is not well-rounded like Goliath, where he can win with multiple strategies. Behemoth extremely excels in a few areas, but fails in most other areas. I want his more well rounded, not nerfed into the ground. Even if that means giving him more mobility and faster cast times in exchange for less health.


#18

Ok, since quoting is a pain in the ass on the forums:

  1. Counterpicking or the inability to do so is a problem with the game, not a character in it. You don’t change a character because there is something wrong with the game.

  2. You keep asking people for a mountain of evidence to contradict your hypothetical situations or anecdotes about behemoth’s play. Just stop, it makes nobody want to discuss anything with you.

  3. You keep talking about this “toxic FT3 strat” but every game you describe goes somethig like this:

-Monster runs and feeds
-Hunters drop
-???
-Monster s2, hunters either missed a dome or threw a bad one somehow.
-???
-Monster in favorable position somehow.
-Monster engages.
-???
-Hunters have strikes or on dropship somehow.
-???
-Monster s3 with no engagement somehow.

Do us a favor and:

Describe some fucking engagements
Describe how you actually track, corral, and dome the monster

Considering these are the core elements of the gameplay. Especially since you claim that tongue grab is good in terrain, which goes against every experience I have ever had with the ability.


#19

Alleged toxic ft3 strat*

Take it wit ha grain of salt- But Ive never personally suffered/struggled against ft3 behemoths, and the only time ive seen it work ive largely put the blame on the hunters for allowing it to work. Either on the assault for not doing a sufficient job chasing, the trapper for throwing inadequate domes (This is the most common i have seen), or some combination of both. Not that I HAVENT seen it work- Its not like ive NEVER lost to a behemoth, but when ft3 works- Thats largely why, in my experiences.

When you have people like Puggims on your side, playing trapper, with 1700 hours in the game- Or Sky (Another great player, his capacity to slot into any role is amazing, and probably the one ive played evolve with the most), with 1800 hours- I never see behemoths in domes where ft3 is a problem.


#20

I don’t mean to bash on one or the other, but when people disagree on a Monster’s state of balance and refuse to budge in their opinion (Wraith and Bob are particular fan favorites in that regard), it’s best to just read over each other’s posts and try to ignore its contents.

I will admit I still get triggered immensely when I see every Bob topic go down the same way over and over again, though.

“I play on consoles and he is OP!”
“I play on PC and he is UP!”
“I keep losing to him but refuse to go into detail regarding how my team and I play!”
“Well he’s only good on pubs anyway.”
“Are you implying my team sucks?”

I think I made my personal point of view on Bob quite clear anyway so I’m bailing on this thread. It’s gonna go down the same road as always anyway.