Feature: tracks that we have to look for when monster is sneaking


#1

Right now I feel like a monster sneaking has far too many strengths if there is no daisy on the team.

Considering the weight of the monster, I feel like even sneaking he should leave some, just not as deep, and here is the main point of this topic.

When a monster is sneaking he doesn’t leave tracks evidently seen by the HUD as glowing blue periodically.

We have to look at the ground to see faint traces. And he doesn’t leave them when it’s not soft ground. So metal, rock, and pretty much anything other than soft earth doesn’t leave tracks to be seen. It would be almost impossible to see through grass.

It would be great to see this to regain a bit more “hunt/track” feel to the game. A heavy monster sneaking shouldn’t be able to leave absolutely no tracks on soft ground.

And when we completely lose tracks of the monster we aren’t just dumbly looking around. We try to find corpses/destroyed trees/plants, and work our way up from that point looking from faint traces around. If it goes up to a cliff, we lose the tracks when climbing and then if it’s rock, no more tracks.

Only snow and earth would leave tracks.

I feel like the game right now is pretty much “done” in terms of fight/combat. But the hunt element could have a bit more “oomph” to it.

I thought about this when thinking about the fusion plant start. A monster wanting to sneak-start can absolutely juke the hunters. While it makes no sense. Leaving faint traces in the soft earth while leaving away would be awesome. Make the hunters as real hunters, but as soon as the monster starts moving through the grass, the hunters would lose maybe 4-5 seconds per square meters looking for tracks.

It would be a good time/square spent looking for tracks, then 2-3 seconds lost through communication. And then maybe 4-5 seconds to look for another tracks to confirm a direction.

That’s 15 seconds of doing something useful instead of wandering like a fool, hoping for the monster to make a mistake.

The more the hunters have a active role, the better the game will be.

Right now, until the hunters have a break (monster sucking ass, startling bird, going full-throttle strategy), they just … aren’t active, they have to be passively waiting for any input from the monster. Moving around without aim isn’t being active …

And it leaves even more options open for the monster to be even more crafty ! Again, in fusion plant, a good monster knowing he’s against a good hunter team would slowly starting sneaking north, go through the grass, and jump south into the water, climb west up, go through the factory water (there’s only metal up there, no tracks while sneaking). Same as before, but leaves a chance to the hunter, and makes it more challenging for the monster. The hunters would have to see the tracks leave north, see them disappear, and deduce a jump, and then work their way around to see the point of impact.

Well anyway it’s just an idea to try to rank up the hunt/tracking factor of the game which is a bit lacking when monster is sneaking IMO.


#2

Sneaking is the ONLY way to prevent hunters from catching and tracking you. If you add tracks or some form of tracking incentive for hunters, you are only babying them more. Plus, Daisy would lose a big part of her utility.

Good hunters can still find a sneaking monster by listening for sniffs, meerkats, rustling, available locations when they were sneaking, and a giant moving monster.


#3

What Yazkin said, and not to mention that you still have stuff like corpses, knocked down trees, and so on. You’ve got enough visual and audial tools to at least give you a hunch, and a hunch, an organized team and the trapper’s tool of choice is what gets the sneaky monster.


#4

Griffin’s spikes will also pick you up when pouncing, eating or climbing, regardless of whether you were sneaking or not. There’s tons of options to track a sneaking Monster.


#5

Everything after that is said in the hypothesis that the monster is mostly sneaking.

I’m not saying tracking is hard. I always play as Abe so I have to rely on something else than Daisy.

I’m just saying sometimes just sitting there because you have no clue where the monster went is stupid when there is a way to make it better while not breaking the game and give more meaning to the monster sneaking plays.

The sound cues only works if <50m AFAIK or something along those lines.

I’m talking tracking here. Not “I’m 50m away from the monster and I don’t know where he is”.

I’m talking he’s on the opposite side of the map and I have no idea.

When I should.

Right now you spot a corpse after 2 minutes of not seeing the monster, you still have no idea where he went after that.

Something is wrong on the passivity of the hunter’s side versus a good sneaking monster. They should have “something” to do instead of directly going to “let’s steal this buff” , “wait at power relay”, “wait for him to make a mistake”, and all of these. This is passive. And there’s almost no way to being active against a good monster sneaking. Which of course, sucks. Giving some hard, challenging, “YOU NEED A BRAIN FOR THIS” tools to the hunters to track the monster, would increase the skill ceiling of hunting, which is always good, and grant a small chance at hunting a sneaking monsters.

Right now a sneaking monster moving in the middle of soft earth in the middle of the road (to avoid trees) leave no tracks. Wtf ?

They should have a choice to make, decisions, trade-off in the way they sneaking.

I’m saying there should be a way to track a monster beyond using your tools (spikes/dart/daisy). These are passive.

A more direct, hard, challenging, if a monster is not carefully paving/thinking through his path when sneaking would give more meaning to the hunt part of the game while not totally crapping on the balance of the game. Low skilled players wouldn’t be even aware of these faint tracks on soft ground. High level players, either hunters or monsters would use them to track/trap/deceive each other.

But it would still be more “active” play, than “passive”. Which is always better.


#6

The slow speed and general caution brought about by sneaking is enough of a counterbalance from my experience.


#7

I shouldn’t really be lecturing you because I have a lot to learn here myself. But the onus is on the monster, they have to feed and level up or they will eventually run out of time. And when they feed they always risk attracting birds. Since you are playing Abe they will also eventually eat a tracking dart.

There are other hunters who also have special tools to help find it… Cabbots scanning dust and Buckets UAV. I think a big issue is learning the maps as well as possible. Learn all the best little hiidey holes and know where you have to look as a hunter.

Having watched a bunch of games over the last couple of weeks I do notice that good teams do seem to be able to find the monster quite reliably and frequently.


#8

Allowing tracks in certain terrain DECREASES the skill ceiling of the hunters more than it currently is at. A good monster that is sneaking should NEVER be found, and if the hunters don’t know what they are doing, it’s going to happen. You already need a brain to realize you can take buffs, find out where the monster was going before sneaking and map out his paths, and finding that monster.

Yes, they would. You underestimate the thought of new players and think that they are incapable of noticing something different.

I once had a game against a really good monster and we couldn’t find him for 10 minutes each round. He would only eat big meats, he never startled birds, his sniff bonus made it impossible to listen to because he knew where we were before we got in range of sound, and he was capable of getting to stage 3 multiple times with only getting detected 2 or 3 times the whole game.

Why did this happen? My team and I didn’t bother to map out where the corpses were leading to, and what pattern he was passively creating to avoid us. and we didn’t bother to look in tight spaces until it was too late (I checked and got pounced).

It was that player who made me realize that I had to look much harder for signs or presence and tracking location. Even though a monster is sneaking now, I am capable of planning out where he was going, what paths he can take to avoid us, and getting the team to branch out to cover more ground. Ever since THAT player, I have been able to track sneaking monsters with a cooperative team without the help of AI or HUD notifications.

It’s all about practice and experience. And the sneaking terms of this game make the hunt FUN and provide a rush of “Who is stalking whom?”


#9

That 20 ton behemoth somehow floats over snow. makes sense.


#10

Sometimes, games disclose physics to improve gameplay mechanics.


#11

I get that, but in the case of the snow map, the snow helps to hide the monster, evening it out with light tracks would make sense. Personally i say take out the glowing tracks, use actual tracks and make them light when the monster is sneaking, or if the monster sneaks for an extended period allow for faint tracks at certain intervals.
edit… or something to change up the current style of play. i feel sneaking should certainly be viable and that tracking needs to be more difficult, but I also feel that there isn’t a variety of play-styles for either side.


#12

My entire point is that however you want to present it, sometimes games feel slow from the hunters point of view, which is why we see topics like “Giving the monster incentive to attack before staging up”, “We didn’t see the monster for 10 minutes, it sucked”.

And that suck. A lot. Sometimes you won’t catch a break.

In those times, I would have liked to be actively looking for real clues, with directions. A tree does not give a direction, it gives a tip, but nothing to follow. two trees give a line. But not from where to where. A track, gives a tip and a probable direction, a second one gives a reliable direction.

See the difference ? One gives probable information, the other reliable information. Line without direction, either up or down, 2 tracks = line + a direction. That’s the entire meaningful difference.

Sometimes games as hunter suck, not because you are bad, or even if you are good. Monster just shuts down your entire play. You have to be passive, it sucks.

Another way to put it would be to say that when a monster is running, both sides “act”. When monster is sneaking, hunter side can only “react”. Which sucks.

Tools to be more active would make it more fun and give more “oomph” to the tracking of the game, because you would DO something instead of preparing to react to something.

And tracks that are REALLY hard to see (monster is sneaking), I’m thinking in inside testing they should have an average of 15-20 seconds to find one, find another, move on. 15 seconds is long.

If you don’t see a problem in not seeing the monsters for 10 minutes in some game and having to chill for your spike/daisy/dart to pop up, I don’t see any point in talking to you, you can just keep on passively playing your game.

You don’t have to answer back if it’s to say again how a “good” hunter would still find the monster, and how it’s a problem of experience. If you don’t see the problem in your arguments. I will stop talking because obviously I found the wrong person to talk to.

Thank you for your precious input.

NB: If games takes actual position of the foot to put the track, maybe moving backwards would mind fuck hunters with tracks in the wrong direction ?


#13

People are still learning. Monsters have plenty of incentive to show themselves, and you’re going to start seeing a lot more Fully Armored Stage 1 attacks, then disappear to Evolve and Armor Up, rinse, repeat, within the first few weeks, if not days. I’m willing to bet that Every Single Monster Player on these boards learned a more aggressive playstyle during the Beta. And, it seems to me, if you haven’t seen the monster in 10 minutes, then that’s a pretty good monster. Good hunters are like ticks, and very hard to shake after the first encounter. For me, I didn’t know in the Alpha that downs on hunters increased your Evolve Meter. That point made me a lot less defensive this go-round.


#14

There has been an idea tossed around that I really liked. It’s the idea that Hunters should get an out-of-combat recharge bonus on their jet-packs. The longer the Monster stays out of combat, the faster the jet-packs recharge. This would give the Hunters an easier time to cover more ground. As soon as the Monster engages in combat, then all the Hunters lose the bonus at the same time. Then the Monster gets his in-combat stamina bonus.

Another one that I had was the idea that Hunters should not lose their elite wildlife perks until they’re downed. This would mean that the Monster would actually have no choice but to fight the Hunters. Instead of running away and waiting for the Hunters to lose their elite wildlife perk, the Monster would have to remove it from them.


#15

It was a REALLY good monster player. My team usually finds these guys within a few minutes, but he brought out a challenge and played things perfectly in terms of passive play. He chose when to eat, chose when to risk being seen, evolved only when he knew we were going the other direction, all with strategy. If I knew his name, I’d give it to everyone and tell them to try their worth.

But what I see from the OP is that he wants to hinder stealthy gameplay. It’s something vital and a path that players are allowed to go and take risks in doing. Adding a heavy counter to that path through ways of just following them really just makes sneaking not worth it anymore when hunters know what to look for.

This is something that is more agreeable to me. It doesn’t hurt the monster, and it allows hunters to push off into finding the monster faster using exposed area and exploiting the monster’s mistake in direction.


#16

I hope to, one day, be regarded like that! :laughing:

I find these nerfs always tend to be in favor of the hunter – all I can say is watch the developer streams, hunters should work as a pack, know how to split up, don’t shoot until everybody’s together, Ping the hell out of the map, friends don’t let friends get plant-chomped, and as has been mentioned elsewheres, if you’re in a pub game with speech-shy folk, hit the mic; people want to be led, people want to win. Be polite, be encouraging, they’ll get the drift.

I’m not too hip to the jetpack acceleration – it would definitely have to be locked out as a possibility before Stage 2.


#17

You mentioned you play Abe and a big part of his character is the surrender of tracking capabilities in the early game. Griffin and Maggie have far superior capabilities to help find the monster, Abe is lacking in that because of how good his dart is when you do find it. Consider partnering him with a support like bucket, who’s UAV can be used to find the monster early. The tools are there to be used and, as people have said, you still have downed trees, scared wildlife etc. A big part of it is being aware of the traversal capabilities of the monster, if he’s 24/7 sneaking then you need to get a good idea of how far he can travel in a certain amount of time.

If you’re going to give the hunters such a, frankly huge, buff, the monster would need some extra capability to counter this


#18

right now it’s the only viable option, unless your a experienced monster vs a trash set of hunters. every match i played over beta was a stealth match, or it was over in 2 minutes and the monster didn’t stand a chance. something needs to happen to open up more styles of play.

edit… I am sure that monsters like behemoth and future modes will create new experiences, and with it styles respective to each. What i am saying is that, as a hunter, i don’t want to go in against say wraith and know exactly how he/she is going to play. Changes to the current tracking system may be part of opening that up.


#19

there’s already the carrion birds to prevent abusive stealth-playstyle, I think it is enough.


#20

The carrion birds are pretty easy to work around. That and even with them I rarely see anything other than stealth play into stage 3. You might catch some straggling hunter here and there but for the most part (from what im seeing) its still stealth all day long. and the carrion birds can be largely avoided by hunting larger prey.