Emet kit synergy and beacon viability


#1

Emet is getting a significant (and deserved) damage nerf. Besides maybe bugfixes and hopefully mastery changes (!) I think that will be it. Honestly, I expect him to be pretty weak after the patch. To make up for it, making the highly situational respawn becon more viable would be the preferrable way to go.

I also noticed that there is little to no synergy between tool 2 and 3 of Emet, whereas Val, Lazarus, Caira and Slim definetly have some sort of synergy.

Finally, something that can annoy some Monster players, is when it is placed right in front of you but is not destroyed immediatly due to its high initial healthpool.

So here is the idea:
Instead of starting with 300 health, the beacon has only, lets say, 60. BUT it can have up to 1600. This is where the synergy comes into play: The beacon can be healed by the buoys and their heal burst, if within their range.

Like this the Monster has to pay attention to the beacon much sooner, otherwise it will take too long to destroy it. At full health, which can be reached in about 26 seconds of 30 hps healing including 2 healbursts, it will be a nightmare to destroy in the 4 remaining seconds. But if the monster chooses to destroy it within the first 4 seconds, it will take about one medium to strong ability and it is gone.

This overall makes it more rewarding to place the beacon far away and let it heal up while the monster is coming (or not).

Extra: overpowered deployables
The buoys can heal ALL deploayables up to 3 times their current inital health (except the Shield Drone, which would have a total of what it has now).
For most deployables this would be 75 maximum, so they can sustain 1 tick of Fire Breath. For Buckets Sentries I would put this at somewhere between 200 and 300 and decrease their inital health.


#2

I think this is a smart idea!


#3

I remember Chris saying one of the things they wanted to introduce this in for was because they used to have the beasons in the pre-alpha days and the feeling of having to scramble to destroy the beacons or let the hunters get some reinforcements is a feeling they wanted to bring back.

So I can’t imagine that any change would happen that stops that gameplay of “run off a bit and place a beacon in safety”, I hope any change that happens enhances this aspect of forcing a monster to make a decision to leave the area quickly to deal with the beacon.


#4

How does this stop this gameplay? It encourages it! The further away you plant the beacon, the more time the buoys have to heal it up => more likely to get a respawn. It would force the monster to deal with it as quickly as possible.


#5

I’m just not a fan of the changes you’re proposing, they seem over complicated :slightly_smiling: Just my personal opinion.


#6

I think they seem okay in my opinion cause

1: It makes it harder for the monster to destroy the beacon
2: You can heal the beacon to full health making it stronger
3: You can heal other deployables in the field

Which makes EMET even a better medic to play as :smiley:…Okay this does sound OP


#7

I already explained my stance on this a while back, I cant remember whether to you or somebody else:
It does not matter how complicated the solution is, as long as it is the only solution. After you have some more solutions, you can pick the least complicated.
Decreasing the time to respawn for example is not a solution, as it will lead to scenarios where it is impossible to destroy it in time (especially with Kalas teleporters). An incredibly unfair and unfun experience. It can never be like 15 seconds, because Kala would teleport Emet and the trapper out of the dome, which means the monster has only 5 seconds left after the dome dropped to get to the beacon.


#8

Am I a monster player? No I’m a trapper main. But I do also play monster semi-regularly. At the moment I feel Emets beacon is too easy to get rid of, but that’s because, including repositioning time of Emet, it gives the monster 35+ seconds to deal with whatever it’s doing to incap people then destroy the beacon before taking out Emet and winning the game.

Meanwhile all that time that Emet spent running away could have been spent being more active in harassing the monster and generally keeping healing at it’s maximum potential.

The beacon therefore has two problems:

  1. It requires Emet to leave fights too early
  2. It is too easy for a monster to get its affairs in order and still destroy the beacon.

For me there is only one change that is really necessary and that’s to add a “respawn” time to the end of the beacon’s countdown and to reduce the beacon’s countdown. IMO if you add a 5-10 second “respawn” time and remove that time from the beacon’s countdown then you are not bringing hunters in any faster than before but you are reducing the monster’s time to destroy the process by up to a third which forces much quicker action by the monster.

The respawn time keeping it at an overall 30 seconds also means if the monster wants it can prepare for this arrival if it was too late.

Ideally, (though it’s not necessary) Emet would actually be able to pre-place a beacon. It’d need to be very obvious to a passing monster both in vision and sound I’d say, but it’d enable Emet to concentrate on staying in the fight assuming that it had stayed up. If this were the case then there’s less of an argument for reducing the timer. There are issues about a monster not being able to escape a dome to deal with a pre-placed dome (though teleporters may well force this discussion futher down the line anyway), but I think if someone is dead, and it’s not the Trapper, and the monster is unable to get the trapper down and get out to the beacon in 30 seconds then that’s pretty good strategic play by the monster that they need to find a way around.

This is far from the only solution though, you’ve not really defined what the “problem” is except this subjective “synergy” thing? And in doing so what you’ve done is suggest a solution that goes pretty much entirely against the “let’s not have monsters fighting deployables constantly” changes of the recent past.

As long as the actual time to respawn never dips below 30 seonds I don’t see any reason why it can “never” be a 15 second period to be able to destroy the beacon. Monsters against Emet would learn that building strikes is the way to win the game, as opposed to wiping teams in one dome like with Lazarus, for example.


#9

The beacon is too fragile for how long it takes to respawn hunters.

The beefiness of it could be ramped up, or the timer could be reduced to 15 to 20 seconds to actually be useful. Right now its just a fancy piece of decor.


#10

At the end of the day, as long as the time is long enough you’d need to give the beacon insane HP. By the time a monster has run a significant distance to deal with a beacon they should have one if not two damaging abilities ready to chain. It’d need at least 1600hp (equivalent) just to stop a Goliath traversing half the map and then leap smash/rock throw comboing it in to insignificance.


#11

I disagree. It forces the monster to either come back after an engagement and it leaves to get armor as it took a lot of health damage and take more perma health or the Hunters come back. If people throw it down willy nilly it isn’t important. In the right situation it forces the monster to stay commited or find it. Having the monster make a decision like that makes it worthwhile.


#12

With Emet, I struggle between staying close enough to heal, and far enough to get the beacon deployed safely. since Emet can’t throw the buoys very far with his weak little robot arms, you can’t get too far away, as they are constantly taken down by fire breath, lava, acid, aftershock, etc.

I’m ranked in the top 12 Emets, which i think right now is about 180 matches won with him, and I STILL haven’t gotten the 2-star rank on my beacon. I am sick to think what the 3-star rank will require.

IMO, the beacon is too easy to detect. As soon as I place it, you can see the monster’s focus change, even if I’m fairly far away. Sure, I guess that’s a good thing if you’re trying to prevent someone getting downed, etc, but it never lets the beacon work. A good monster just won’t allow it.

Now, i am holding some judgement to see the synergy with Kala. I feel it’s gonna open some new opportunities with teleporting outside of a dome to place the beacon, so we’ll see. Right now, though, it either needs to be quieter, timer invisible to monster, not as bright of a signal, or maybe only vaguely detected by sniffing or something of that sort. It needs help being viable.


#13

The real world scenarios mean that what happens is the following:

Monster downs someone that isn’t the medic, who runs away to get the beacon up at the maximum benefit for respawn. Monster continues to wipe through the team that are now without medic, still has time to destroy beacon and then kill the medic.

Monster kills someone, fight goes on, dropship ticks down, monster loses all armour but downs/kills a couple of people. Emet places a beacon somewhere not too far away. Monster decides to ignore it because hunters coming back an extra few seconds faster isn’t worth risking more health for, especially if the timings mean that the monster is actually no better off because he has wasted the time difference taking down the beacon.

Monster kills someone and Emet goes off not too far and Monster is weaker, Monster knows Emets game and follows, and destroys the beacon, and then kills Emet who is not with the team.

Basically… I’ve not seen a single scenario where the beacon has worked in any game I’ve played either as, or with, or against, Emet except where the monster rightfully understands that the beacon is basically only bringing the hunters in at a “better” spawn point and not much quicker than the dropship. This, to me, doesn’t feel like a concept that is working exactly as it should.

The decision for the monster is simple, If Emet’s gone off before anyone has actually died then play with your food before preparing for the final Emet kill, If Emet’s gone off when someone is dead then either follow him and easily destroy the beacon AND Emet if the dropship timer is still long, or ignore it if it’s short. I feel that as it stands the monster is rarely forced to make any crucial or game changing decision about what to do with the beacon. They all end up with hunters with a mess of strikes, sometimes respawned slightly faster, sometimes with more hurt on Emet.

This too would go against the design concept for the beacon. TRS want it to be bold and visible, they want it to be something a monster has to make a choice about as @MaddCow says. Much like how Laz doesn’t need to actually revive for a team to do well out of him being there by punishing body camping, sometimes the beacon can be most useful when it’s not even managing to respawn. But I’m with you in that I don’t feel we’ve quite got there on that balance yet, I don’t see it as significantly useful in the vast majority of games I’ve seen him in.


#14

Yeah, I agree. I just know something has to change with it. I’m keeping hope that Kala is the answer.


#15

You mentioned that someone gets downed and the medic takes off to go use the beacon. That is incorrect play. Emet encourages a much more aggressive play style because he CAN get you back quickly. The examples where it works well is you remove all armor in a dome and the monster is only able to get 1 person down/death. At this point he can body camp (Your team punishes for that), mitigate (In which someone can force the monster back in order to get someone back up) or he can go after someone else (Same as previous answer). Either way the monster HAS to be taking damage otherwise yes, he will just go and find the respawn beacon.

However, it has been my experience that if a dome comes down and the monster is not able to end the game right there they leave. Plant the beacon and the monster has to come back for more perma damage (And finding the beacon, not even engaging the Hunters) or allow the team to reinforce. EMET rewards VERY aggressive comps because they know that they can come back quickly as long as they aren’t so aggressive that they get themselves killed. I think the beacon is in a good place atm. It’s also a ‘threat’ of using (Like Orbital and Laz) that also gives him strength.


#16

I hope Kala isn’t the answer. I hate it when there are very distinct hunter synergies that almost become requirements. If Kala specifically make Emet more viable then there is a problem there that needs to be solved! :slightly_smiling:


#17

I don’t think it forces, but EMET/Laz go really well with Kala.


#18

I think that’s why I don’t like the concept of the beacon as it stands, because you’re right… the single situation it’s useful in is where the hunters basically have the upper hand and are then pressing it. Given Emet is weaksauce in healing terms (except for incaps, sure) it feels like there should be some kind of “Monster has the upper hand” play available for the beacon. That doesn’t exist as it stands.


#19

It does though. If the monster is doing really well, the beacon doesn’t work. If the monster is losing then it works well. This is in agreement with most of the offensive teams. Its a win more option. Offensive team comps are precisely that. There is no big turn around for them, they are usually all in plays. Emet isn’t a ‘stable’ healer like Val/Caira and shouldn’t be. He is there for another playstyle. He has just enough heals to help cover residual damage but he can’t, and shouldn’t, be able to keep people up from burst. That is why the beacon is there, the trade off.


#20

Yes…

Exactly

What trade off? I am confused I think :stuck_out_tongue:

Like I say, if the hunters are doing well then they use the beacon, the monster has to either Laz-style over commit and hope for the best or just let it happen and accept the strikes and go to armour up (which isn’t exactly a terrible situation for the monster, so I still generally disagree with the notion that it necessarily forces the monster to make a choice). If the hunters are doing badly, because Emet hasn’t got the burst to keep people up, then the situation where the beacon can be used while the monster is being dominant doesn’t exist either.

I don’t know if I’m misunderstanding where you’re coming from, but the beacon for me doesn’t at all make up for Emets lack of healing, unless the team are already doing well enough that they almost don’t need the beacon anyway.