Elder Kraken Hitboxes


#1

So last night I made a thread on the Elder Kraken and how I personally feel he is extremely squishy and generally underpowered.

According the poll (at this time) 75% of 51 people tend to agree with me on his squishiness. Now I do believe Elder Kraken is weak ability and traversal-wise but I really believe what kills him is his hitboxes.

On the Thursday February 25th Weekly Livestream, @MacMan (I believe he was the one) stated that Elder Kraken shares the exact same hitboxes as regular Kraken. This meaning that essentially, they take the exact same damage so if you did play Kraken on the ground fighting you would die just as fast as Elder Kraken.
So, this makes me believe that Elder Kraken suffers the same fate as a grounded Kraken, he becomes kalamari from the moment he exists. I believe this because with the way his abilities work in my opinion, he cannot be that effective of a brawler and he takes too much damage because of it.


Now, think back to Patch 6.0.1 when Kraken and Behemoth were given new hitboxes, the first time something like this has been done.

Kraken’s hitboxes were specifically changed to make sure that the ranged Monster takes more damage on average, this is for the Kraken who is ducking and weaving from a mile away and still doing pressure; the problem with this though is now that Elder Kraken is around he is the “brawler” Kraken, he’s meant to be in your face and attacking you on the ground.

However that’s a big problem that he shares that same hitbox since now he takes more bullet damage on average just like regular Kraken but unlike him he sits there and eats all the punishment that is sent his way.


###TL;DR Elder Kraken shares the same hitboxes as OG Kraken meaning that he takes more bullet damage on average, this coupled with a few bugs he has and (IMO) the ineffectiveness of his kit is what makes him UP in my eyes. I suggest that we fix his hitboxes and his bugs and see where we can go from there.


Anyone share my thoughts? Do you think his hitboxes should be changed? Why or why not I’d love to know.


[POLL] Elder Kraken Squishiness
#2

Is the giant text really necessary? :stuck_out_tongue:

I need to play online with him more, but the hit boxes might be enough of a change.


#3

Yes, yes it is :stuck_out_tongue:
######(Some people have trouble finding it otherwise)


I think it’d be enough but we’d have to wait and see if they will change anything.


#4

I took a wrong turn and ended up in the Telemetry thread D:


Kidding aside, I agree. I found it silly that EK had the same size and hitbox as Kraken, when he’s supposed to be grounded. His head is still big, with all that x2 there, too. Not sure if it’s still the biggest head hitbox, but it’s quite a big target.


#5

The hitbox surely must cause the squishy effect on Elder Kraken, since the animation of the abilities tend to have the tentis not shielding Elder’s weaken old back.


#6

I agree with the thought process and willing to agree that it would be worth looking into.
And once pounce nerf comes, his ability to “move” will be also weakened.


#7

His head is relatively big, which is why I’m gravitating a lot to bullet base hunters like Parnell or Slim which absolutely blows Elderly’s head off.

Even if they’d look into it I doubt TRS would want to do anything about it, because as they said changing hit boxes are not only hard to do but very time consuming.


#8

well… MAYBE instead of changing them, I hope they have saved the old ones and possible could use on this Kraken?


#9

An easier solution would be to just give him more health and/or armor


#10

By that logic you would just add health to anything that dies too fast instead of altering numbers of abilities.

If we did that you’d eventually just get Monsters with 30 bars of armor to drill through but you do it quickly so they might as well be tough to kill but have three bars.


It’s better to fix the problem than to bury it under a rug.


#11

But that would cause a skillgap problem, because people with lower aiming skill wouldn’t do enough damage if any suficient damage.


#12

I am pretty sure that was not the reason. If TRS wanted that, they wouldnt have increased his health at the same time.
No, from what I have read, is that they wanted Kraken to have a head-limb-body ratio similar to Goliath and Wraith, where it was something like 10-40-50. Kraken was something around 20-50-30.
Same goes for Behemoth, but with him there was too little limb damage.

If Elder Kraken recieves approximatly 10% head, 40% limb and 50% body damage there is no reason to change the hitboxes, as he would be suffer the same damage and have the same health and armor as Goliath.

Though if he still recieves too much damage compared to Goliath in a dome, then I would see the problem in having all 4 hunters alive too much and simply buff the damage (of CL or melee. CL because its weak, melee because Goliath’s melee attack is faster and thus has a higher DPS)


#13

Clearly didn’t read the quote directly from the patch notes.


#14

What exactly did I quote and responded to? First or second? Look closer.

Sorry if this comes of rude, its not supposed to.
You took the quote with bullet damage and removed the bullet out of it. Kraken may recieve more flat damage from bullets on average, but due to the simultanious health increase, the health percentage dealt by bullets did not increase that much.
But the percentage explosives do definetly did decrease due to the health buff.
So in the end it is not accurate to say that Kraken recieves more damage on average. Less from explosives, more from bullets.

If Elder Kraken for example gets litteraly melted by Hyde’s Flamethrower in seconds, changing the hitboxes won’t help his sustain.

You may argue that Krakens hitbox-health-change has helped Lennox with her AC being the primary against Kraken and weakened Markov, whose LG always has been one of the most solid anti-Kraken weapons.

I have been able to track down the post I was referring to (pre 6.0 telemetry):


Limb: ~40%, Body: ~50%, Head: ~10%


Limb: ~61%, Body: ~30%, Head: ~9%


Limb: ~43%, Body: ~48%, Head: ~9%


Limb: ~26%, Body: ~69%, Head: ~5%

Taking Stage 3 health (16k to 18k) the old hit ratios and assume Goliath’s as the new ones:
Old: A bullet lands for 785 damage per 1000 on average, an explosive for 1000 per 1000.
New: A bullet lands for 900 damage per 1000 on average, an explosive for 1000 per 1000.

So bullets went from dealing 4.9% total health to 5%, on average bullets would therefore deal 2% more damage.
Explosives went from dealing 6.25% total health to 5.56%, on average they would therefore deal 11% less.

Stage 1: 11.2% -> 11.25% // 14.29% -> 12.5%
Stage 2: 6.83% -> 6.92% // 8.7% -> 7.69%

In the end it depends majorly on the Assault if Kraken now recieves more or less damage.


#15

I think his squish factor is more an issue of his movement and chain lightning being weak.

I feel like he should be pulled down less, he already falls from the sky fast on his own, stasis combines to really hamstring him.

Otherwise, chain lightning fells really ineffective, and really limits his offense in a way he does not need to be limited. Having only three useful powers is annoying.

If we could normalize chain lightning, and making his mobility more smooth he would be perfectly fine, he can dodge while aiming and casting his abilities without hampering them, which compensates his low health well, while hitting like a train, if it weren’t for that one gap in his offense.


#16

The new hit box made a huge difference to kraken

Kraken new hitbox will make him receive more damage … . Why did they change health bars ??

I don’t know for sure but maybe they thought the new hitbox will receive high damage that it wasn’t enough to compensate for the hitbox change

Look at behemoth new hitbox / lower health . Clearly behemoth receive less damage from hunters … they reduce his health to make him more standardised / to compensate for hitbox change

As Parnell . I can see a major difference between the damage I am able to do before and after the hitbox change

As kraken main player

The old health / hitbox is way better than the new hitbox/health change … because Old kraken receive lower damage


#17

Given that Kraken recieves slightly less headshots than Goliath, I think they also made part of his head to body, I would say that if it is something about his hitboxes, it would be the head being too big for that distance. Krakens head is significantly bigger than Goliath’s yet recieves less headshots due to the distance. Such a big head is a much easier target up close, so I could imaginge that if anything, the head-hitbox needs to be smaller.

But anyways, I am sure there are already changes coming to Elder in 9.0. Also the new telemetry should have some sort of messurement how the bullets spread over the body.


#18

But not only assault do damage. Everybody does damage when they can, and most of it are from bullets. I would like to see few things. First - average round lenght of Kraken and Elder Kraken with the same compositions. Then DPS he took from hunters. I have a feeling that EK has a shorter rounds and incoming DPS would be higher. This could have many reasons “why”. One of them could just be as simple as being a new monster, and people are still testing waters with him. Could be that his mobility is lesser, so he does take more damage. Or I could just be missing something entirely. Thing is, we have him for a week and we already had Kraken for a year. Look at what state the Kraken is. Some say he is OK, some say he is not. And it’s been out for a year, and still we don’t see an end of debate about him :slight_smile:


#19

When did they change kraken’s hit box and how


#20

In patch 6.0

Read the thread . You will see it