Dropship timer increase doesn't seem right


#1

It has to be based off of the monster’s level, right?

I just played a game where the monster did a good job hiding, never really had an engagement, and it got to level three with basically no problem. So we ended up having our first fight by the generator. Two of us go down but the monster is low enough that he has to back off.

No problem, right? We let it get to stage three and we lost a couple, but this is still our first fight so they should be right back and have a good chance of winning.

Then I see the dropship timer. Two minutes? Really? This is our first fight, and it may as well have given us permadeath. Why does it have a timer of twenty seconds in most first fights, at stage one, but then give us that massive disadvantage based of of the monster’s evolution. The monster has more health, more armor, more offense, and a whole 'nother way to win the game at stage three. Does it really need another huge advantage?

The monster disengaged easily, suctioned up some armor and was back to mop up thirty seconds later. On another note, the timer appeared to have stopped counting down. We had a minute and thirty seconds left to defend, but by the time it disengaged the time was still the same. WHY???

Here’s a better alternative. The dropship timer is increased every time it is used. The first time it is used, it’s short and after two or three uses you get the longer ones of one or two minutes. That way the first fight feels like a first fight no matter what the monster has been doing. While we’re at it, why on earth does the match timer pause whenever you are fighting? Instead, have it pause while the dome is up to stop people from using toxic tactics like one-man five minute domes, but still keep going otherwise, so that people don’t feel like fending the monster away from the generator is just prolonging a game they will inevitably lose.

TL;DR The dropship and match timers don’t make sense the way they are now, better ways are in the paragraph above. Sorry for the rant, but it just feels so weird the way they are now.


#2

Dropship timer is increased by Monster getting downs/kills AND by staging up/evolving.


#3

Actually I kind of agree… The Dropship timer should shorten when the Monster is stronger. The Hunters have no way of Staging Up so the balance should be that they can keep throwing themselves at the Monster when it is stronger.


#4

If this was a thing, the Hunters would just start letting the Monster stage up to make it easier on themselves when they die. The timer increase is a punishment for the Hunters not catching and killing the Monster, and an incentive to actually try harder.


#5

Ok… But how can we “try harder” when we’re not even on the map anymore? :stuck_out_tongue:


#6

By respawning and trying again, but harder than before you died.


#7

I dunno. I feel like right now Stage 2 and 3 with “average/learning” Hunters just means the monster keeps packing you guys back into the Dropship and you all just watch the game slip away.

There is definitely a “try harder NEXT match”. But really most average games for Hunters that are not a 100% no-mistakes team is usually lost if a monster can Stage 2.

Maybe spawn timers should be just constant and not added/subtracted?


#8

This would just create an infinite loop the monster would not be able to win no matter how strong he is. Taking the original post,

Say the monster comes in, hunters use up their resources to sustain one hunters life low enough so that the shields can get shaved off. That hunter is dead, monster is bare and still taking damage. Now you want lower re-spawn timer right? Monster continues to kill but then boom, hunter comes right back in the matter of time it is taking to aggro it and kite it efficiently. The system they have prevents a continuous birthing of hunters and will wither the monster down enough to death dealing with the, we kept ourselves long enough we deserve this rule.

If a monster gets to stage 3 then that is suppose to initiate the end game and really drive the conclusion of the match, not drag it out longer. The new meta is not meant to make these games drag out past an average of 12-15 minutes. Hunting should be quick and the fights favoring the hunters early game if they cannot win the fights. Last phase is meant to be the closing and if the hunters cannot win it that is how it goes. There are plenty of clutch moments hunters can get if they pull through. But affecting re-spawn at the end to be quicker than it is now would tilt the probability factor way towards the hunters.


#9

I don’t see any late game saves on Hunter side. If your team (especially public games) could not find the monster and do effective damage within the opening minute, believe me, the game is lost.

Not saying the systems are not there. But a team that is “out of sorts” in the opening minute is not going to suddenly light up when monster is Stage 3 and is at the Power Relay.

Same with Monster btw. The worst Monster players wouldn’t make it past half the map and wouldn’t even be aware that respawning was a thing.

It wouldn’t make that much difference. But to be fair, I think the best thing would be that the Respawn time is constant and not increased/decreased anymore.

Or maybe +5 seconds instead of +10 seconds for every down?


#10

I’m not saying that the respawns should be shorter at stage three. I’m saying that the timer shouldn’t be effected by the stage at all.

/ / / / Game Design Analysis Below / / / /

Here’s my understanding of the reasoning beind the timer as it is now. The very short initial respawn timer is meant as an initial buffer for the hunters. You have a stage one fight, you mess up and one of you goes down. He’ll be back very quickly and you have another chance to go at it the right way, mindful of what went wrong before the dome goes down and the monster escapes.

As more people go down, the game is less forgiving since you’ve already had a couple second chances and apparently the monster is just better than you.

And that’s great! That exactly how the game should be balanced and it works very well and feels good in that situation. But we run into trouble in the type of situation described above in the initial post. That fight was the first time our party really fought together, so there were bound to be some mixups. Regardless of that, we performed very well, managing to drive the monster away before taking losses we couldn’t recover from. Or at least that’s how it would have worked, if we hadn’t been slapped with a big respawn timer since it was stage three.

The situation was still a “first fight”, but even more difficult since it’s against a stage three. We performed well given the circumstances, but we didn’t have that recovery mechanic that’s supposed to make up for it being our first time working together against that monster.

Instead, the game just kinda says, “Sorry but you guys aren’t supposed to have a chance at this stage,” and the monster goes off to armor up (note that his recovery mechanic is very much intact and actually better since stage three has more armor) and comes back after thirty seconds to finish off what he had started, with no chance for us to do any better.


#11

Yeah in the end it always relies on your team for the end to pull out those victories. I was in a random public yesterday and we did manage to win. It IS possible. Frequently? Probably not. I am use to the resawn timers being default set but with the new meta they brought into Stage 2 a lot of things would have to change again. To me it feels just right but I know where you guys are coming from.


Any chance a dev with a grasp of game design theory could take a look at this real quick
#12

I guess what feels bad is that there’s no second chance. I know we shouldn’t have let it get to stage three, but we did really well in the fight, and the monster just wins since game mechanics gave it a recovery mechanic and not us.

That’s what it comes down to. We messed up while tracking it, it messed up while fighting us, but it had a recovery mechanic still in place and we didn’t, meaning we lose just because.

Especially because there’s an easy way to make the system work, which I outlined in the last paragraph of my initial rant. I wish there was some way to flag down one of the developers for this one, since I’m no game designer (and I love hearing from actual ones.) I’d like to know if they were thinking about it as a recovery mechanic like I was, or whether it was serving a completely different purpose and I’m way off base.


#13

Okay I see where you are at. I do like your rant it is making me think a little bit. There are times I feel like we could have had a better fight but because we were so far off on the respawn timer thats what signs our graves.

Trickshot was able to abbreviate the process in which the timer goes up. I think after reading through your explanations there could be a tiny adjustment. Maybe tacking off one of the ways the timer goes up could be one. Or a certain time the respawn timer will stop accruing so that it is less brutal on the hunters with the situation you presented. Do you think that would be an improvement? Because not getting a second chance for a small mis positioning does hit home hard. I lost stage 1 fights because one teamate could be misplaced and it sucks. But to the situation of good hunting to end game, I feel like one of the adjustments would benefit a fair “second-chance” if the hunters did not ensue so many casualties.


#14

Yes. The game right now feels like an unforgiving schoolmaster. The game is supposed to be fun. But the way games on both Hunter and Monster side “erode” as the game winds down doesn’t exactly feel fun.

My own instinct is that with constant respawn timers, yes the intensity of matches would increase (actually it would remain constant) throughout a match. But there are positives there.

When Monster wins:

  1. The losing Hunters would feel at least like they gave everything and “kept coming at the thing”.
  2. The victorious Monster would feel like an absolute boss.

When Hunters win:

  1. Winning Hunters would feel like they pulled out a tough win after many respawns.
  2. The Monster player would at least feel like it went down in a blaze of glory (especially at Stage 3
    where the Monster could have won by destroying Power Relay or even at Stage 2 if it went down after sending Hunter after Hunter back to the Dropship).

Remember that the Hunters never get stronger, you’re only hoping people LEARN and HAVE FUN.


#15

Yeah, I think the solution is in replacing the stage up timer increase. The timer should still definitely increase when a player is killed, but make that the only one or add a small flat increase based on time. That was the hunters still have their recovery mechanic and the monster doesn’t feel like he’s having to fight wave after wave of hunters at the last point while the timer ticks down.


#16

I kind of agree to a “Max Respawn Time” cap. Kind of like: “This is as bad as it gets”. The respawning Hunters already get “strikes” against total HP every time they drop again so it feels fair to at least not allow the Dropship to take longer to come back.

I mean, you’d think with the Power Relay in danger they’d tell Buckets to fly the dropship faster not slower! lol. :stuck_out_tongue:


#17

I was thinking about kills still stacking but I do not think evolution should be crossed out. I think a better sub would be the amount of incaps you would get on the hunters. Monster gets rewarded for reaching the end phase but hunters still have their chance. If not incaps, then deaths should be removed and incaps counteed. Monster plays a lot quicker now in all variations so they shouldnt have anything more ticked off of them for advantages. But hunters do deserve some compensation for staying alive, performing well during fights and being able to fight for the end making every choice matter.


#18

Yeah this would be good, it just cannot be too low. Gotta give the monster to kill if he really is wiping the strikes off hunters.

And omg I use to say thaqt all the time way back when I first started p[laying like where the hell are you people xD


#19

I’ve lost Hunter matches going down while the announcer is saying: “Reinforcements incoming…”

Very frustrating. But it’s a good sign also… I’m 3 days old in the game, and if my “casual skills” can get the matches that close to a Respawn chain at Monster Stage 2 with my Suicide Medic teammate (I was Hank) wiping all the time that means the balance is not that bad.

But you know. I’m not saying: “We should get ez mode!”. But the +10 ended what was just about to turn into a good fight… the Stage 1 fight I had was very poor, and the Stage 2 was much better… We challenged the Monster player better. But alas, no chance for either side to “keep playing what was turning into a good fight.”

It’s like Dropship pilot threw in the towel. :stuck_out_tongue:

P.S.: Three days into the game I’m also crying out: “Where are you guys?!?” History repeats itself!


#20

Hey we all gotta start somewhere. And you will get those matches where the few seconds would have changed the tides of battle, I know I have. There is a lot of new mechanics they addedlike the self suicide so that the timer gets started earlier . Howver back to the original topic, if this gap of time seems to be happening too often and players are seeing it as unfair for the amount of efforts put in, then definitely is worth seeing if there are respawn alternatives. We dont want no lazy pilots,

EDIT: The game as it is right now is not the most new user friendly and it does seem rough now, it will grow on you. Turtle Rock is always open to suggestions so we can all shape the game with these experiences. They are trying to find ways so new players don’t feel this uncertainty and it helps having this feedback to see where you guys are coming from.