Discussion: Markov < Hyde


#1

So, me and my team’s assault once again had a discussion about Evolve. Cause that’s what we do when we really like games, we discuss the gameplay but mostly the balance.

In his opinion, Markov is weaker than Hyde. His damage output is not as good as Hyde’s on both guns.

-He got an average of 2K on the Lightning Gun and Assault Rifle, compared to 5K on the Flamethrower and 2-3K on the minigun.
-And with the Arc Mines he got an average of about 2K and the Toxic Grenade 1K.

he also reaaallly disliked the fact that there was such a thing as an auto-aiming gun on Markov. He really felt like he got his hand hold with that.

On top of that, the telemetry from the big alpha shows a similiar result: about 20% more from Hyde on median, with only a slight win for Markov on average.

So, I’d like to get your people’s opinion on this. Is Markov weaker than Hyde? And why? (or why not?)


#2

Well Hyde does more damage if you have some decent skill, you have to aim and know when to throw grenades. Markov is just aim the gun and shoot :slight_smile: the mines are a bit tricky tho.


#3

I think that Big Alpha data is highly skewed. Only good players tended to unlock higher Hunter tiers which means they were already good at their job. Personally, I think Markov is a bit better than Hyda. Mines are fantastic denial and dmg. sources and Lightning Gun is GREAT for packs of monsters, banshee mines, Kraken flying etc…


#4

Yes, so a player who wants to invest in becoming a better assault is pretty much always better of with Hyde, since he takes more skill?


#5

I would say yes but you can’t trust the data from alpha and my opinion :slight_smile:
The only negative thing about hyde is that his toxic grenades is more for zoning while markov’s mines are for damage.


#6

Mines are great denial vs Goliath, but pointless vs the kraken.

And yes, Markov might do more damage vs an un-cc’d Kraken. But with some cc you can bring the kraken down into flamethrower range, which will quickly leap ahead of the lighting gun’s damage.

And true, the lighting gun is reliable form of damage vs the kraken. But you still have to get relatively close to him, which means you can’t stay in cover from a lighting strike or have distance to dodge a vortex. So the whole ‘markov can deal damage from safe distance’ doesn’t really add up.


#7

I prefer Markov to Hyde. In straight damage, yes Hyde can probably do more, but that is not all the game boils down to! Markov is a thousand times more tactical. He has a larger effective range, which means you can hang back from the monster a bit more and take less damage, he can place mines to control and deal massive damage (I have had mines turn many a game), and when Hyde uses that flame thrower, you cant see a thing! I am never sure as Hyde if I am hitting of if the monster is just out of range! To each their own though :stuck_out_tongue:


#8

Agreed, Markov’s mines are a lot better than the grenades (though both are still pointless vs a kraken). But I am mainly talking the guns here (which is the main source of damage for an assault after all. Damage with abilities is what support’s do).


#9

The same cc for flamethrower works for mines! :slight_smile:


#10

Sorry, but I have to disagree here. It is gonna be extremely hard to actually get a kraken down on the ground, even with tranqs and the harpoon gun. It will however, lower him enough to roast his Lovecraftian ass!


#11

As always, situations are important. All hunters have their ups and downs, and there is no such thing as a superior hunter.

In a straight unending up in your face engagement, hyde is better because his flamethrower has such significant DPS, but markov has lots of control and reliability that hyde doesn’t. It all balances out.


#12

Using jetpacks… :smiley: … horrible joke


But it also depends on what skill level you’re playing on and what team comp you want to run.


#13

I disagree that it’s hard to use mines tactically against Kraken. Also, you never know who you will get paired up with. If the Wraith is anything like what I think it is, Markov is far Superior than Hyde to it. The Devs even mention Markov’s mines destroying Wraith. Even without the matchup that Hyde is arguably slightly better vs. Kraken, Goliath and Wraith are still easier for Markov than Hyde. Markov even can hit the monster AND banshee mines at the same time. I just don’t agree with Hyde being vastly superior all around. Different playstyle, sure, but I would much rather face a Hyde player than Markov as a Monster any day.


#14

Simply looking at the monsters healthbar and noticing the bright-white damage blocks will let you know if you are hitting him or not.

And this is of course arguable, but isn’t it ‘good’ if the assault is the target for the monster? He has his personal shield and the medic/support can focus on keeping him alive (or place high damage abilities in some support’s case) instead of being forced to run away/focus on survival.


#15

Abe gets him on the ground like none other! :stuck_out_tongue: It is all just preference, I have used mines against the Kraken to great effect, but sometimes they dont help at all its true, I still just feel like Markov is better.


#16

Ok, can we please leave the T3 hunters/monster out of this? I’m simply stating something what my assault observered during the big alpha. Bringing stuff we haven’t played yet up doesn’t help.


#17

TRS has stated that the personas for the class are all about different play styles. If your team is interested in min/max-ing, they are assuming that gives them the best damage output possibility under all circumstances, which it simply won’t. As with any metric, as the consumer base gets more familiar and experienced, things will change.

I know TRS attempts to keep any 1 Hunter/Monster from having direct counters with one another, but Hyde’s Flamethrower, however powerful, is very limited in range, and as such, may be significantly less effective than Markov’s weaponry.

The way I see things, stats show nothing more than averages. If you are a below/above average player, the stats shown will be (or will not be) skewed in/out of your favor, and as such, not applicable to you.


#18

Well, I’m very intrested how you can get the mines to work vs a competent Kraken (that doesn’t rely on Aftershock as his main damage output), cause I can’t think of any way that will work.

And Hyde can almost just as easily deal with banshee mines than markov can. He just needs to swipe his flamethrower around for < a second, and at least one flame particle will hit the mine.


#19

I have noticed the best thing for the hunters is to share the damage, so that no one goes down, and there is always someone the medic can actively heal. That being said, I have a very aggressive play style, and feel that everyone should primarily focus on damaging the monster, effectively lowering engagement time and keeping him on the run. That may sound silly, but its why I prefer having Laz and Griffin (I haven’t played Abe yet, so he may replace Griffin) and also Hank. I think that the idea of Assault needing to be the damager while everyone else supports is too strict of a meta. I have always taken adaptability instead of depth when it comes to the Hunters, and Markov is by far more adaptable


#20

I agree that Hyde is superior in hunt. I feel Markov’s abilities shine in other game modes when the objective isn’t straight damage to the monster. I’m thinking of defend mode right now. I did beat quite a few Goliaths players due to the mines though. Markov may do well with good aim and medic tags vs Kraken but his mines are all but useless in the majority of locations.