Discussion: How should the Game be balanced?


#1

Hello Evolve Players and forum lurkers!

Longer ago, when the Game got released I had a little discussion with someone on the forums here about how the game should be balanced. Should it be balanced for compettive/high level play? For casual play? for pubs?

However, today i’ve seen a post on reddit about how the winratios in the latest Go4Evolve were, and thus I thought it’s time to get this discussion not only between me and another forum lurker, but all the people, maybe even getting a word from @MacMan on what he thinks about the subject!

The reddit thread: http://www.reddit.com/r/EvolveGame/comments/336n6m/character_statistics_from_go4evolve_cup_7_find/

For the lazy ones: Overall the Monster had 73% winratio, leaving hunters at 27%. There are some more interesting data, such as pickrate and winratio on the different characters.

Now, let’s discuss. Do you think the Game is balanced in general? If not, why? If yes, why? etc.

My opinion is, that it should be balanced more towards high level play, because, most players tend to have the thrill to improve. Also, low level play is probably quite random on the outcome.
Especially if TRS wants to keep up a competitive scene, such statistics is great for them to see how stuff works out in higher level of play.


#2

I think those numbers show a few things.

  1. There is no reason every hunter shouldn’t be played at least once. Every hunter in T1-T3 is extremely viable depending on what comp you wish to run. Contrary to popular belief Bucket/Lazarus aren’t bad picks. These two hunters are aggressive picks that change the way the monster must go through the game. I’m more surprised Abe/Parnell aren’t played as they seem to be the top of their class if the player/team has the skill to use them.

  2. One mistake on the hunters is likely death, and the game. Obviously the gravity of this mistake is also important. A minor mistake may be taking a longer way to reach the monster, where as a major mistake may be the misuse of jetpack fuel. A minor mistake will stretch out the game, but a major mistake at the wrong moment is likely death.

  3. Hunter teams need more practice. As teams gain more synergy they’ll make better calls, and faster reactions as a unit. With more practice also comes with the reduction of mistakes, and the ability to make these mistakes livable. Lets say a hunter runs out of jetpack fuel against a Goliath without flame breath. A Support can go in for the cloak, and allow the person to live in what was likely a fatal moment of the game.

  4. I believe as the Kraken is brought back to earth, and as the teams practice more we’ll begin to see a more 50/50 split, and maybe in the future a hunter favored ESL.


#3

I’ll keep my answer short and simple. It should be balanced for towards high level and experienced players. I don’t see how balancing the game for low level players that don’t understand 50% of the games mechanics is gonna make things better. Top level player and more competitive players is exactly where trs should focus on as that data is much much more reliable than looking into pub data . Would be cool to see more classes balanced for high level play like val, bucket , Parnell.


#4

It is a difficult subject. I would like to see numbers on how many players are premade/competitive versus those joining random pubs.

I naturally lean towards balance at the competitive level because I want to see the game evolve in the e-sports scene. At the same time if the majority of players who actually play the game just join random pubs then alienating them and losing them because all they do is lose may not be good for the community as a whole.

I know there is argument that to win people need to group up and use mics etc. I don’t think it’s necessarily fair to expect everyone to play in the same way, when there is no reason it can’t cater for all. A lot of people may not be comfortable doing or just can’t for what ever reason.

Is there any reason why skirmish and ranked matches when they arrive can’t be balanced differently, or is this just too much work?

At the end of the day I think the game will be great if it was balanced for competitive games, but not so much if theres only a relative handful of teams left to enjoy it.


#5

Ahh, I like long detailed answers.

Whilst I agree on first point, that for example it’s questionable Parnell wasnt played really, I’d say Bucket/Lazarus are reaaally hard to paly. Especially snce you have to pick Medic first now in ESL you probably wont see a Lazarus comp. I wished people would play more Val/Hank comps tho.

About the hunter/monster mistake-issue: This will always stay like that. Yes, you can minimize the mistakes made, but the favour of this will always be in Monster. Pretty simple, I guess. Also, I think sometimes it’s too easy for the monster to force hunters into bad “decisions” or into using their jetpack at point a) so they dont have it at b) and therefor for examle get a strike. : <

  1. Kraken… all I can say is that I hope his movement bugs get fixed asap. :slight_smile: About the 2v2 splits: Most teams play maggie nowadays (in competitve) and therefore barely make splits… which I think is not the right way to do it 100%.

#6

About the ranked matches: I think/hope that, for example, wild life buffs will be disabled in that (like in ESL!)


#7

As a monster player, I wouldn’t mind balance tipping in favour of hunters/ the unorganised if the following scenario were met:

Once ranked matches appear then joining skirmish as a pre-made is no longer an option. Or alternatively provide a random group match game type. That might cater better for the masses while leaving ranked/competitive to premade only.


#8

There is no need to “tip it in favour” of Hunters, imo. I mean, these Results show that, even as a premade team (that apparently scrims, at least some of them do) they have only 27% winrate!

That’s just far away from 50, right? Too far away in my opinion! :smiley:


#9

Oh without question, if thats the numbers there’s an imbalance there.

And like you said upcoming balance changes to the Kraken and the like might bring that in line. I’m just talking about balance in general and the future.

The problem with balancing the game for pub is it completely breaks it for competitive and vice versa. Because its no longer about the characters themselves and their individual stats and abilities its the way the games are played. Which no one solution, at least that I can think of, can fix for both.


#10

Right now I get the impression that it’s balanced to win ratios across all levels.
I think balancing to win ratios is fine, but they should change the criteria

I think they should switch and only count level 40 games no bots. I understand they couldn’t do this originally because it was just released, but now players have grown and learned a lot about the game. including lvl 20 games is going to skew this so far. i remember my lvl 20 games and cringe at the mistakes i made.

The other thing is to include the skill based ranking. either a visible number like elo or a hidden one. I imagine something like LoL’s ranked system. 5 tiers with 5 subteirs. once you win enough you can go to the next tier up. Then balancing by tiers will be the best way to achieve balance IMO.


#11

I’m going to use a quote that I remember a long time ago.
“There is no such thing as balence. Just balence for now.”


#12

I think as people move away from Maggie, as I think is inevitable as people get better at tracking, 2/2 splits will become more commonplace.

On the use of jetpack though I still see in ESL hunters wasting it. My general rule of thumb is you can tank light abilities, fire breath, melee attacks etc. You need to use jetpack to dodge heavy attacks, rock throw/leap smash. If it’s a level 3 rock throw you need to make sure you never get hit. If you get hit by one lvl 3 rock throw you’re making the game extremely difficult.


#13

Daisy is stoopid though, so many things send her in circles… I only use her for the general direction then I start using my own senses.

So I’m confused why 2/2 splits aren’t used even when Maggie is picked.


#14

Keep in mind that the game aims towards a 50/50 win loss ratio over ALL levels. Though I think that this isn’t the best solution, I do think it works quite well considering. However I think a majority of losses are due to non-premades. Also a lot of losses is due to monster picking mega buffs early in the game.

With the incoming wildlife nerfs I think it will be better, however I wish they would remove them or give the players an option to disable them in skirmish. Or implement a ranked mode without them.

All in all, I enjoy the game as hunter. But I always go with a premade. At least me +1 more up to full group.


#15

That’s my point of discussion here: Should it be balanced like that? In my opinion it really shouldn’t!


#16

Was that meant for me? I don’t really think it should be either. I think they should have a ranked mode and a casual mode. Seperating the two. But I think that would mean a ton of more work which I’m not sure they are willing to do at the moment for the amount of players who are left.


#17

I agree that there should be a casual and ranked modes separate. But ranked/ competitive mode should not be for premades only.

I’m a pretty competitive Evolve player, but I seldom get the opportunity to group up with people. Due to work schedule and most of my xb1 friends chose to skip out on this game. So that kinda leaves me in a tough spot.

I have met cool and competitive people to play with through random pub matches, but we seldom party up or play together after our session.

I think by allowing single Evolve players like me the opportunity to find random matches in ranked mode would allow us to find equally competent players and thus party up from there.


#18

I played ESL on Xbox One and played Parnell, once…


#19

I’ve meant he was barely played. Also, I don’t know about Xbox : p


#20

I would say balance for the competetive scene, everything falls into place from there. When people have trouble with something and look at the esports scene and see a 27% ratio they’ll be far more likely to throw in the towel then if they see a clearly balanced esport scene. It becomes their fault not the games instead of the other way around. The competetive lead meta’s anyway.

Right now pub stomps and the competetive scene are the same, monster almost always wins. Change the competetive scene change the game.