Did Monster standardization help or hurt Evolve?


#1

Just a topic I’ve been rolling around in my head.

Did making the Monsters more and more like each other ultimately do the game any good? With Title Update 9 just around the corner there’s no point in criticizing the current state outside of viewing it in retrospect, but I’m interested in your opinions anyways.

I personally think it was quite good at first, but things began to get out of hand - The Monsters as they are now are a little TOO similar. EDIT: Just look at the Bob nerfs. Not sure whether I could include Wraith either but there’s plenty of threads about her already

Thoughts?


Similarities between monsters
#2

They didn’t make the monsters more and more like each other, so I don’t know where to even start with the question?


#3

Maybe I’m not phrasing it correctly? I mean to say that certain balance patches have standardized certain aspects of the Monsters, like melee speed (or maybe it was heavy Cooldown rate?), amount of armor and health, if I’m not mistaken. Granted, of course, not all of them share the EXACT same health, armor or melee speed but that they’ve been getting similar to each other, like Bob’s armor or Wraith’s armor.

I figured it was already a well known thing unless I’ve been misinterpreting how balances have been made all year. Core gameplay for all the Monsters remains different, but I’m talking about the small, nitpicky things.


#4

I think he means that they standardized them into one single niche that, when playing them, doesn’t feel all too different from playing any of the others. Does that make sense? I’m not sure I worded myself correctly.

It’s like when people complain that Wraith is becoming a brawler. If Wraith is a brawler, it’s playstyle is very akin to Goliath, and (although less so) Behemoth.


#5

Monster standardization was a horrendous idea in my opinion and one I’ve hated since it was even conceived in the balance team’s heads.

I’ve never agreed to it and will continue to do so because a Wraith shouldn’t have near equal health to a Behemoth and the same fighting capabilities as a Goliath.

That’s ridiculous to me and plainly am absurd idea to begin with.


#6

People complaining that wraith has become a brawler don’t even know.

I don’t believe TRS have standardised or forced monsters in to a single niche at all, I think some players have decided that the same tactics work most efficiently for all or most monsters. I don’t necessarily even agree that players have even decided this, but the forum is an echo chamber for those who like to moan.


#7

Except it’s not moaning when facts are brought up, she used to be extremely fast and have four bars of health and five armor! Then her speed and damage was nerfed (with good reason to be fair) and then her health increased, then fleeing and overall speed was brought down, then fighting capabilities brought up, so many changes forced her to fight more and flee less.

Krakens also were made to be better close up fighters to make it easier for damage, etcetera etcetera.


Wraith is just the primary example because of the fact that she is the only Monster that is not anymore and will never be the Monster she once was, no other Hunter or Monster was completely changed the way she was, Monsters were pretty standardized and that doesn’t even compare to Wraith’s standardization.


Also every Monster should have completely different playstyles and each one completely different strategies.

The fact that any one strategy is even considered to be viable between all seven Monsters proves that there is a problem.


#8

Agreed

I don’t care what is considered the best option high end competition. It’s killed each monsters uniqueness. Their abilities may be different, but evening out their health pools, armor, and speed (other stuff too) has taken some of the fun out.


#9

I mean I get that it’s done so each Monster has a chance in competition and that it’s more fun for pubs not to run for 20+ minutes but Monster standardization in my opinion was the absolute worst choice they ever could’ve done. It just killed the uniqueness, I can play Behemoth and I just feel like playing Wraith with a different traversal.


#10

THe sad true is people that complain about FT3 just don’t know how to cut monster off and imho its their problem to solve (get to know the game, get exp, get to know how game works, maps etc) instead of TRS making monster slower or insta domes.


#11

[quote=“Parusoid, post:10, topic:83890”]
THe sad true is people that complain about FT3 just don’t know how to cut monster off and imho its their problem to solve (get to know the game, get exp, get to know how game works, maps etc) instead of TRS making monster slower or insta domes.
[/quote]That’s a very ignorant thing to say. It’s entirely possible to be able to continually cut-off a monster and for the monster to be good enough at mitigation to get away relatively unharmed. It makes the entire game boring, regardless of whether you win or lose.


#12

Let’s not turn this into a debate about FT3 guys, there are plenty of those. I know it was a big problem and that it played a huge role in how balance decisions were made, but let’s focus on Monster standardization.


#13

I can’t agree more. This is also why I’m incredibly against the removal of FT3.

Needless to say, I am going to be having a lot of talks with Developers whenever TU09 drops.


My bad @GoGoGoliath, will do! :bucket_salute:


#14

I will be quite honest about one thing, which I know will make some of my arguments a little biased - I didn’t like Behemoth’s armor nerf with the 50% resistance to bullets as a complimentary ‘buff.’ I think that is when, to me, it really started to get out of hand. Behemoth is supposd to be the tankiest of the lot, and most of the Hunters that use bullets, like Maggie or Val, either don’t primarily focus on doing damage like the assault or use bullets for a secondary purpose.

With as big as Bob is, and the ‘weak spot exposure’ thing he has going with his abilities, he needs all the health and armor he can get. I am very optimistic that TU09 is going to change him very much so for the better, however.


#15

I praised the resistance buff but it was ridiculous to nerf his armor that much.


#16

I think it would’ve been fine if they just added the bullet resistance buff. It wouldn’t change things too much and would actually really help him considering how slow he is, but with the armor nerf it’s essentially trading a cake away for a candy bar.


#17

I agree, especially since every since Assault primary is non-ballistic damage except for Parnell who is S.S-ing your weakpoint any time you even try to use an ability so it wouldn’t have mattered anyway, it would’ve just made him more resistant to the other classes.

Even then not many people on Support or Medic use ballistic weaponry.


#18
  • Val
  • Lazarus
  • Bucket
  • Maggie
  • Griffin
  • Abe
  • Parnell

These are the only Hunters who use ballistic based weaponry, everyone else uses either plasma or some other sort of ammunition.

Val + Lazarus make weakpoints so it wouldn’t hurt them much if at all.
Bucket deals mass damage in AoD so it wouldn’t hurt him too bad, plus his primary isn’t even a ballistic weapon.
Maggie, Griffin, Abe, are all trappers and primarily deal with CC over damage.


#19

Makes me cringe every time I think about how small that number is…poor Bob…easily my second favorite behind Goliath, sometimes tying.

Sometimes I wonder if the two times I’ve taken a hiatus from Evolve were because of standardization, not consciously, but looking back, while I was always strong with Goliath, it seemed like the other Monsters appealed to me less, until really it was only down to Goli and Bob.


#20

Yeah, it’s truly saddening when you look at the fact that his armor was nerfed primarily for characters who are never meant to deal heavy damage or they do so much it wouldn’t matter.

I absolutely hate the concept of standardization, it takes all uniqueness and fun out of the Monsters IMO.