Defend mode unbalanced towards hunters


#1

With the hard wraith nerf incoming, and very little hunter nerfs coming, I forsee defend becoming even more impossible (evacuation day 5) than it already is for monsters. Hunters get infinite lives, plus Lazarus. Monster has very little time. The Stage 3 power area has nowhere to regen armor (on the map with the big bridge at the start). The hike back to the 2nd area critters to get armor takes a minute and a half off the clock, so the monster loses half of his waaay to short a timer. Armor Regen perk isnt enough to compensate. Plus on that map (the snowy one with the bridge), the trapper can bubble just the corner with the power node and the turrets, so the monster has to get wrecked to ever get near it. Monster cant sniper turrets, assuming he has a ranged option. Additionally, meleeing turrets is still bugged resulting in melee hit causing 0 damage to turrets. (this also happen to the hunter stage 3 power node. if the monster gets shot, he starts doing 0 damage to the power node. Plus are 3 is so huge a Cabot can sit waaaay out of smell range and shoot all day long never getting spotted as he leaves virtually no tracers.

the kings fort jungle defend inst nearly as bad, with an under area with game for the monster.

In my experience, Cabot + Lazarus on that map makes it impossible for the monster to win, especially if the trapper just goes reload speed and bubbles his turrets at power #3.

Think about it: decent hunters and a stage 3 monster can be a fair fight. Now add infinite lives and turrets for the hunter…maybe even powered up turrets? Now add a strict time limit for the monster. Oh, add in few areas with little critters to heal. Oh and minions that ignore hunters even though they should GO AFTER TURRETS first. The SAME turret kthnx.

Either the hunters need to have a life limit, or the monster needs to get a slow health regen. AS it stands, hunters can sacrifice themselves to do a little damage to the monster, rinse and repeat. repeat muuuch faster with a Lazarus. The minions are pathetic. If the monster could get a way to command them to A) go for the power source, or B) go for the hunters, it might be fair. but the minions are useless. Yes, they can puncht hrough power 1 and 2, but the big monster has to sacrifice his health to do so. minions get ripped up by Power #3 turrets, so it’ll all player monster… who is whittled down to low health trying to take the first 2 power nodes, as lazarus keeps the team fighting infinately, or they all sacrifice themselves 5 seconds before the dropship arrives.

Adding a 3rd minion might make it more fair, as the hunters can just recklessly go Awol and harass the alpha monster. AS a hunter with a decent hutner group, this methosd is always best. just strike the monster hard and fast from the very start. minions ignore you, alpha doesn’t ahve full armor, the dropship clock is already started. You’ll do at elast 30% health damage to the alpha and respawn in time to taake out the minions before they get 25% power source done. Rinse and repeat until power 3, where by that time the monster has 10% health left, and he has 5 minutes to win. Laughable.


#2

Defend definitly is tough for monsters, i think that if they just removed the “all strikes gone at dropship” bit then itd be better (not to come off as elitist or anything but defend really isnt that hard if you can get it down to a science)


#3

My Elite Kraken and Elite Goliath would like to have a few words with you…

If you are having trouble with Hunters at the start its probably because you took too long to go off to the side and eat food. If they have a Lazarus and Non-Hank then congratulations! You’ve just received an easy Lazarus to kill. If there is a Hank with Lazarus then kill Hank and figure out where Las is or just guard Hanks body till he shows up. Frankly Lazarus is the worst choice for defend as a Medic because his Glove is useless due to the fact that Hunters spawn with zero strikes anyway.

Goliath should have max Rock Throw and Leap Smash which should do most of your damage towards Turrets and almost kill them provided you are actually accurate with them. Kraken is an easy win. Max out all abilities (ignore useless Aftershock) and just spam all abilities at the turrets. Once the Turrets are dead the minions will have a free pass to the Generators besides Bucket Turrets and Markov Mines in which case you should deal with them if possible and this forces the Hunters to either risk losing the Generator or split up and weaken their resolve against you personally.

In my experience as both Hunter and Monster in Defend games the Monster is the one who decides who wins. Based on what the Monster picks for abilities, if that Monster is trying to work on Masteries (such as crummy Aftershock), and the Monsters overall combat performance. If the Monster player is smart and is playing to win with no limitations and no side objectives the Monster can and will win. Unless they pick Wraith then they are just dumb.

If a Wraith wins then the Hunters were just terrible or were AIs first then players joined as default characters.

I may sound like a prick but I know my Monsters and Hunters and Modes. (Or at least I hope I do. After all I have all Achievements within the game waiting for Behemoth to come out.)


#4

I think that hunter’s should definitely come back with 1 strike when the revive during defend. That I think would solve most of the problems.


#5

Camping bodies until laz repopps seems unproductive and suicidal. plus Yay I killed laz! oh wait 15 seconds left on the dropship. /wasteofhealth.

Kraken is the only monster i can conistantly win with, except on water processing map thing. the 3rd area just feels impossible. Trapper bubbles the last little area. Kraken cant snipe turrets. No food anywhere nearby. Cabbot is hitting you every second on the second.

Maybe you just havnt played with a non-pug laz group.

And you do come off a little as a prick. that you have both elites tells me you are something of a pro. It shouldn’t take a pro/very talented monster nor elite to have a fair chance at winning. I would like to have a life outside of evolve and still have a 50/50 shot at winning a defense with not a Kraken.

I always lose because I run out of time. I take so much damage that I never get to go after the power myself.

And I’ve never had an ‘easy lazarus kill.’ Usually they are smart, invis and let his team destroy your health while you go after him or ‘guard’ a downed/dead hunter. then the support chain invis’s Laz. Not an easy kill of he’s visible 2 seconds out of 45.


#6

When I played Evacuation as monster the hunters usually had a 2-3 tick balance advantage, it made them eat through my armor and health like butter. Main reason I stopped doing Evac, besides hitting 40. No point if you’re punished for winning.


#7

You don’t have to sit on the bodies to keep Laz from reviving him. You have ranged attacks and you can leave mines by the body so if Laz goes to revive he shows up and it’ll pop him or use them vs the jerks shooting you. Again as the Monster you control the fights with what you choose as your abilities and perk. And if you’re playing standard evac then you’ll probably have some sort of advantage depending on who’s winning each day and the map bonuses.

Also I don’t play the game and I do have a life. I work two jobs and only get a few hours a night to play if any unless if I get lucky and score a day off which I don’t get too many. Its all a matter of how one plays and performs.

I’ve lost a fair share of games and its not because something was OP and/or broken but usually because either I or incompetent teammates screwed up somewhere and if I screwed up (particularly as Monster) I make sure to learn what it was and how to avoid it or at least make it easier for me the next time it happens.

Maybe you are just unlucky and keep coming across top tier players and as expected you are going to have a bad time or you’re just not good at Defend as Monster because of the small space and pressure of time and objectives with multiple things going on at once.

In the end the balance between Monsters and Hunters is a bit one sided and at first I thought the same as you, Hunters always (or usually win) Defend but after awhile I got better as Monster and its been awhile since I lost a Defend game aside from about one or two weeks ago but that was because of an AI Hank Fluke with Orbital Barrage but that’s a different topic.

You also must be offensive with your minions and stick with them. If they get trapped in a dome they will attack the Hunters (although slowly and go for the Trapper but that’s good). The only time you should go alone is for a very confident Turret kill with minimal damage. If you let Hunters go offensive then you’ll be fighting uphill and probably lose.

Since there is no video to see how you play I can’t 100% criticize your abilities in combat thus making everything said simply… suggestive.


#8

I think most people as monsters, unlike you, do not win defend with winning streaks weeks long. If that were true, the forums would be flooded with more “monsters op in defend” threads. So you are far above the norm. Hense the “pro” status.

Plus, like me, I -always- have monsters ranked 5th for class choice, yet 90% of pvp games I’m forced to play monster. I want to have a fighting chance without grinding elite monsters or being restricted to Kraken to have a decent chance. Your laz counters are all Kraken… And for good reason. Kraken is the only one decent at defend.

Average players like me, who are often thrust against our will to play monster, should have a fair shot. If only players who spam monster gave a good time, there’s a problem.

Just putzing about I have a couple elite hunters. Not so for monsters even though I spend a lot of time with them. Curve is too steep. Easy to have bonuses on hunters. Hard to get the same bonuses on monsters.

I very much want to enjoy monster in evac. But ever darned fight feels like a uphill battle. And defend just lays on the perks for hunters while giving the monster very little.


#9

If you have a trapper that can trap them before they get too the generator the monsters not overpowered in that


#10

I’ve played Defend as Goliath especially when I was focused on Goliath for Elite Status and won each time… or at least most of them I think… can’t remember.

Maybe I should try Defend more often and see if I can come across more people but with quitters by day two and what not and include all the buffs that Hunters and Monsters get in between matches its hard to get an accurate feel.


#11

TRS needs to do is provide more food to feed on. Hunters trap you inside the dome when you go into attack the generator and with the mix of the new hunters, they do alot of damage very, very fast. By the time you escape the dome you’re left running up and down the god-forsaken map for something to eat so that you could recover your shield. The very little wildlife there is in the game mode is located right in front of the hunter. You always have to eat right in front of their face, which of course they don’t allow. It’s a lose, lose situation for hunters. The fact that TRS, nerfed the monsters and upgraded the hunters and provided new hunter that create some very nasty mixes of combinations, and did absolutely nothing at least in Defend Mode to help the monster shows that TRA hugely favor the victory of hunters over monsters.