Defend mode Turrets need some resistance to long range attacks


#1

I know that Defend isn’t exactly the most hard-core game mode, but I feel that this balance flaw makes it significantly less enjoyable.

To clarify on existing Monsters, I am addressing Rock Throw, Lightning Strike, and Vortex with the phrase “long range”.

Kraken is certainly the main culprit here, but Goliath is still a problem to a lesser extent.


Siegeing with these allows the Monster to avoid most any of the risk they would normally incur in aiding their minions with little the Hunters can do.

Even choosing to attack the full armor and health Stage 3 Monster isn’t a real counter, since the Minions are likely to take the generator at some point while they are fighting.


In the meantime, all the Monster needs to do is target the relevant abilities from a safe range.

This nearly completely nullifies the point of the mode - to force them to expose themselves in aggression at the peak of their strength.

Instead of fighting the Hunters alongside Minions, it is currently optimal to launch Lightning Strikes from safety.

It is also, frankly, incredibly over-effective for how easy to pull off it is.


Victory aside, it substantially limits options that could be considered near-optimal, gating Monster creativity if they are playing to win.

This is not to say that ranged attacks should have no place: they would remain a tool for damaging Hunters and clearing traps from safety.


Proposal


With these thoughts in mind, I suggest that all Defend objectives receive a 50%-75% resistance to select long-range abilities and ranged attacks.

If needed, the effectiveness of Monster melee attacks could be increased to ensure they deal proper levels of damage when the Hunters are driven away or rendered tactically ignorable.


#2

Hmm. But Wraith lacks these long-ranged skills. Do you think she should get a buff for that mode… ? She’s definitely the worst monster for Defend.


#3

I disagree. This takes far too long to be viable- while you’re waiting for LS and Vortex to recharge, the turrets- and the Hunters- are having a gala-day with you offspring. If you aren’t putting direct pressure on the Hunters and the Turrets, the minions will melt.

You terrible Mother/Father/Gentleman. :wink:


#4

Don’t know how fast it is as Goliath (and Rock Throw seems simple enough to intercept) but as Kraken it seems easy enough to remove half a turret’s health with a lightning strike then there’s all the other ranged options he has. The minions will respawn in ample time so I don’t mind losing them to quickly take out the turrets first.


#5

It hurts me in my soul to say this, but this may be a legitimate buff for Wraith in that mode.

She would be able to cut down the Turrets and Generators faster.

@MidnightMonash

Not really, particularly when the Kraken’s ranged attacks enter the equation.

The time is balanced around Hunters generally preventing most of the attrition Minion damage to the objectives unless the Monster fights them, in which case things get interesting.

Lighting Strike and Vortex guarantee attrition damage at a rate that may not seem fast, but will easily push objectives faster than the Hunters would like: at no risk.

The strength of the tactic is that the Minions aren’t really very necessary to finish with time to spare.

May :daisy: have mercy on you, ruffian!


#6

But I don’t want to be a ruffian! I have grace and poise, you know. Also, Daisy has no mercy. Plz halp.


#7

Yeah, with her tiny bit of armour, she can barely take care of the turrets without eating damage. Forget it if the hunters are around… She’s minced meat. She’s just not made for Defend.


#8

Eh, true with Goliath.

Even in the worst case imaginable he isn’t nearly as problematic - though I have concerns on a tactic of bodyblocking rocks.

(Those things hurt!)

On the other hand, Goliath may well benefit from more melee damage on the objectives.

@MidnightMonash

:daisy: comes for us all eventually. :grimacing:

@Sannom

A melee buff would certainly help, but as deeply as I hate her it may not be enough…unless Decoy brings its own share of problems.

Is Abduction of any use on that mode?

If nothing else, she can quickly back off to regain armor, domes exempted.


#9

Abduction does very little damage to the turrets. You’d have to use it four times or something in order to destroy one. Hell, the NAME of the mode is Defend-- but her defenses are paper thin.

Now if Behemoth is the monstrous tank we believe him to be, … I’m terrified of his effect on the Defend metagame.


#10

Nooooooooooooooooo… But I was so careful, and I covered my tracks and everything…


#11

I was more wondering if isolating and killing a Hunter was a valid tactic.

That skill could probably use some form of buff anyway - could be a good way to help her out.


Behemoth…I say we cross that bridge when we get to it.

Intimidating indeed.


#12

I did experience one wraith attempting to abduct people away from the generator (and she was quite successful) but it ended up taking too long and by the time the 2nd generator was almost down the timer was up.


#13

Though I’m solidly in the “Wraith OP” camp, giving Abduct a much-needed buff may really help that tactic.

It is certainly unique and interesting as methods of attack go.


#14

The bridge has been crossed.


#15

How about you deal less dmg to buildings depending on distance?
So you can still smash people with a rock, even though it is a ranged :smile:


#16

I usually play assault. My dream is to one day take a rock to the face for an ally while using the personal shield. In this case the ally is immobile.

We need more attacks to intercept, most just go right through us like Charge or Vortex. Lava Bomb maybe!

I think abduction has it’s uses. You’ve got a nice open view of the defenses, you can watch from a distance with decoy attacking for free damage and abduct hunters every so often to try to take them out of the picture for a while. Really is the only thing I can imagine her doing on this mode, the damage avoidance of decoy is vital. Least once the decoy’s ripped into the turrets you can go supernova on the objective (or your decoy can). You have to really try and cheese that victory to win as Wraith.

@Sannom I’m looking forward to seeing how the rock handles Defend.


#17

Now let’s take a moment to realize how you fall into the class that’s most likely played one match. The Goliath and kraken are meant to be able to have long range. Wraith is close range. Goliath is a mix of long and close range. Kraken is long range. That’s the whole point of these monsters you just have to learn to play with it that’s what makes this game fun.


#18

But why choose anything but Kraken on Defend? He outclasses Goliath and Wraith (even more).
If Goliath wants to focus the generator he can hurl slow rocks for mediocre dps or stand there beating on it. If Wraith wants to focus the generator she is forced to be in close proximity. Both these monsters put themselves at immense risk if they go at the generator alone.
Kraken instead can be at very long range and bombard the generator with Vortex, Banshee mines, Lightning Strike, and basic attacks for huge damage. Pressured by the hunters? No problem you can just rotate behind cover and suffer minimal damage.
They Dome you to keep you contained? No worries. When trapped in the dome Goliath minions will instead focus down the hunters (now it’s a 4v3)


#19

Could also work, but it may be less intuitive.

@Sorrowgate

I also like Assault, but Personal Shield is an important cool-down to use if we have a Laz.

Abduction just generally feels weak to me, though it is probably well suited to defend.

@Graph_Elite

Played several, though Evacuation is hard to que for sometimes. Prefer it to normal play.

I’m not asking them to lose range - I’m wanting them to need to target the Hunters rather than cheese the objective.

Ignoring the point of Defend doesn’t make it fun for anyone really.

@Gobsmacked

Good point, though the danger in focusing the Kraken is more that the minions will kill the generator.