Confusing mechanics for a new player


#1

I’m a new player to this game, so I could be wrong about some things, but I thought I’d share my thoughts on the game so far and maybe get some advice while I’m at it.

Firstly I should say there are some excellent mechanics in the game, and overall I think it is groundbreaking. The balance at first seemed very good, I’ve only been playing for about two weeks now and I understand there was a recent balance patch, so much of my thinking comes from the past few days of Monster play.

I don’t really get the Hunter speed. I don’t know if this is an issue of playing level 40 Hunters or what, it seems to be because I cannot lose some of these players, by the time I lose them I am across the map and in a corner. So it seems the maps are too small or there is not enough challenge for the Hunters. It also seems that speed perks for level 40 Hunters essentially make them faster than low and mid-level Monsters.

Lazarus reviving dead players. I think this is generally a bad mechanic. It was terrible in Left 4 Dead 2 (defibs), and seems even worse here. But if they insist they want this in the game what really doesn’t make sense is that his special revive works faster than a normal revive. Normally with a benefit there is a tradeoff, but not only does his revive disappear strikes and revive dead players, a dual-purpose mechanic, it also works faster than other forms of reviving. Perhaps I have just not figured out how to play against him, but it seems a pretty poor mechanic for balance when a Monster has to take damage to cover a dead player, or hope you get a lucky incap location so you can’t be shot. Basically it is is like a L4D2 Survivor being able to spawn a health pack and defib whenever he wants.

You should be able to eat while being shot. This is a mechanic that also makes sense. What you are eating is essentially lost anyways from getting shot, but the way it is not only are you stopped from eating but you also take damage.

Shields are infinite until you take down Support. This makes no sense to me. You can use a huge combo and get two players close to incap and then at 2 health the Hunters can just shield and negate all damage for thirty seconds or more. The shields should minimise damage, not negate it entirely as the mechanic just gives Hunters too much power. They already have temporary shields and health regeneration, why make it so that the Monster constantly has to switch to the Hunter with full health?

Balance between ranks is impossibly bad. I’ve played difficult games, lots of Left 4 Dead and Battlefield 3 competitively. Both games punish new players, Battlefield 3 especially with vehicle setups which can only be unlocked through levelling pretty high. But there is a difference between unlocking guns and gadgets and unlocking damage multipliers, a very significant difference. I would like to know what the jump is for a nub Monster fighting bots or nub Hunters up to level 40 Hunters. It seems there must be a 30-40% damage increase at least. This is insane and is comparable to the current Armored Insert problem in Battlefield (a gadget for a single class which blocks up to 50% of damage, gamebreaking mechanic). I would consider this a near gamebreaking imbalance.

Too much randomness through perks, player damage advantages through level grinding, elite monster advantages etc. This just prevents new players from playing, adds to stat boosters playing against low levels, and separates the community through making the game boring to play for high levels.

Not enough going on for the Hunters. I explained this further in the Frustrated Monsters thread, but there should be more wildlife attacks on Hunters, this would make it more interesting for them, and prevent the endless chase and dome-trapping.

Inconsistencies in dome time. I sometimes have no idea how long the dome will last. It seems inconsistent to me, lasting several minutes in some cases. I suppose this is something I could be wrong about, but some way of judging how much time you have would help the Monsters a lot.

Aim assist seems too strong. I shouldn’t be taking damage halfway across the map and getting harpooned at ridiculous distances because of an aim-bot intended to make the game easier for new players. There is obviously an issue with controllers having precision difficulties in close quarters, but snap-to aim-assist has become a huge crutch in shooting games.

There needs to be two aiming sensitivities, one for monsters and one for hunters. I like low sensitivity for good aiming, but as a Monster you have to be able to turn quickly. The mechanics in Battlefield 4 are excellent with different aiming options for hipfire and ads. This game wouldn’t have to go into that much detail, but separate aiming sliders are a huge help.

It seems that there is little advantage to levelling to Stage 3. It seems that the Hunters become much stronger (don’t know if this is true, but it seems this way to me). And this is combined with several of the Power Relays being in locations advantageous to the Hunters, in some cases extremely so. There is also an insane time limit which further presses the monster to have to fight without shields or lose from another constraint. This seems to me to force a stalemate of fighting back and forth at Stage 2 where the Monster doesn’t do very much damage.

That’s about it for now. Feel free to give me advice or correct things I have wrong. I’m still learning about the game. However, I do have experience at a high level in lots of games, so my nub status here shouldn’t really discount what I have said. As well, this isn’t meant to be offensive to the community or the developers, it’s just feedback on what could be a classic game.


#2

Soon you’ll think Lazarus is weak. He was the first character we thought was OP, he hasn’t been changed at all and people now think he’s weak.


#3

To clarify hunters do not become stronger at stage 3 they are exactly the same as when they first drop. What makes it hard is that most relays are hunter favored and give hunters great things to kite around. So my advice to you is to get strikes before you get stage 3 IF you can. Honestly 2 strikes on anyone is a huge advantage to the monster. You can kill that player before losing half health if you hit your abilities.

Laz. Yes he is tough to play against at first but you will soon find out he is not at strong as you may think. With Laz it’s all about mind games you have to lure him out and strikes on Laz is key to winning that game. Also take in mind that with Laz trapper can be killed very quickly and the dome drops even if the trapper gets revived you can get away get armor and try again. With a Laz comp it’s high risk high reward. If you get 2 strikes on Laz and have atleast 2+ bars of health it’s pretty much game over.

Let me know if you have any other questions I’m the team captain for the #2 NA team (Vanquish) so I think my information is credible haha


#4

Btw shields can be out damaged, they’re not time based they’re damage based. And if you can eat while getting shot it would make Lazarus useless as well as make no sense.


#5

You are right about Laz I think. He can’t really heal much with his gadgets, so it’s a tradeoff. I think I mainly have trouble on maps where it’s hard to distinguish who is who on the Hunter side. In some places they seem to be hidden quite easily.

I guess the only other thing right now would be advice on what to practise. I mainly play as Kraken and Goliath, trying to get used to the maps and dealing damage at Stage 1 and 2. I think I was doing a lot better at the start but I’m dying more now, even when I dominate for much of the round I will sometimes end up dying since I can’t get shields back or get away quick enough.


#6

Keep an eye on this thread for advice. I’m working on my Laz game as well. :slight_smile:


#7

I have come to assist you! Welcome to Evolve! :blush:

The monster is always the same speed, regardless of stage (I think speed does vary slightly between monsters themselves). Their increase in height makes their longer strides seem slower, but this is actually just a trick your eyes and ears are playing on you.

As for hunter speed, it’s a possibility that they took the movement perk, but it’s more likely that they came across the speed buff (Marsh strider), and I’ve found that THAT buff makes it very easy for hunters to stay relatively close to the monster.

So I ask you: When you sniff (since you should always be sniffing), do the hunters have a small red circle icon next to their health bars? If so, this indicates that they have a buff (and the icon displays the creature they got it from). It takes some experience to be able to identify what the buff is, but that would explain why the hunters seems to be abnormal (doing tons of damage, being totally inescapable, being super resistant to damage…).

Lazarus is known to be difficult for new monsters to deal with, because he’s a very atypical medic. To put his abilities in perspective: Lazarus has very little actual healing, he only has his heal burst. This makes his team very squishy, since health damage is very difficult to recover from. His power comes from the additional struggle between him and the monster when someone goes down. There are several other posts on these forums that can explain much more clearly how to counter or deal with Lazarus, but I can assure you as soon as you figure out the player behind the Lazarus you’re facing, you can crush the hunter team, and revel in their foolishness to hunt you.

Because of various other mechanics, it’s a necessity that hunters have the ability to stop you from eating. For example, one of the counters to Lazarus is to fully eat the corpse of the hunter (both bars, not just one), then he cannot revive the hunter. If you could eat while being shot, Lazarus would be completely useless with absolutely no recourse. Also, think about it: If you’re eating cereal and someone punches you in the shoulder, are you going to keep eating like nothing happened? Monsters are powerful, but they’re not immune to pain and distraction.

Depending on the support (hank / sunny), there are different ways to go about ruining the shields. For example, hank can’t shield himself, and Sunny’s shield is stationary. The shields have a strength of 1000 (or 1500, if they have the capacity perk). To put this in perspective, a hunter’s total health bar is 1600.

It may appear that the shield is returned to full strength if the shield comes off them and then is reapplied, but the shield gun does not regenerate energy that quickly. You will find that continuing to beat on the shield will seem to do oddly larger portions of its remaining life (although whether or not you choose to actually do this is situational. I’m not implying you should tunnel-vision, but there are cases where burning through the shield is better than switching targets).

Also, hunters do not naturally have health regeneration. The medic can heal them, they can select or find the health regeneration perk or buff, but they do not naturally regenerate health.

As you master a character, you gain benefits. Sometimes these benefits are up to 10% damage increases. In addition to this, more experienced players will be able to more reliably land their attacks and use their abilities more effectively. It may appear as though they have a dramatic increase in damage output, when it’s actually just a slight increase, and the power of teamwork.

This is sometimes a problem, I agree. There’s definitely a lot of wildlife that causes problems though.

The dome lasts for 45 seconds. If the TRAPPER gets incapacitated (or if they choose to), the dome will collapse earlier. I wouldn’t be surprised if, like other monsters I’ve faced, you kept fighting after the dome fell, and then their dome cooldown finished (maybe another 45 seconds? I don’t know), and then when you wanted to leave, they threw a second dome.

Lots of people think so. As far as I’m aware, the Dev’s are aware of our complaints regarding this.

Level 3 brings you, of course, health and ability points. Hunters seem stronger because you typically fight at the relay. In nearly all maps, the relay region is more beneficial for the hunters, than the monster. Something like wide open spaces, really tall pillars, lots of ground and easy line of sight to the relay all imbalance things in the hunter’s favor. It’s to give the hunters a chance after you’ve become a super powerful ultra monster. Typically, two or three abilities combo’d together can completely destroy a hunter. Wait 6-8 seconds, repeat. Watch the other hunters so they don’t get revives, and stomp the rest out.

I always like putting 3 points into 3 abilities, they always feel like they all do a ton of damage (sometimes level 2 just doesn’t feel good enough). Experiment with your builds, see what feels powerful.


#8

Whilst maps do play a factor in how fast the Hunters catch up to you, it’s mainly to do with how well they’re predicting your movement, whether they’ve got a Caira or Sunny, perks etc.

Lazarus has his mechanics this way because he’s a bad medic in the sense he’s bad at healing. He’s quite a well balanced character. Trading heals for a device that revives the dead and incapacitated without strikes is a good deal. The reason his device works so fast is another benefit to sweeten the deal of no-heals, not to mention a decent Monster player can easily counter Laz, so he needs to be in and out as fast as possible.

No, otherwise you’re making Lazarus useless, as every other member of the team is focused, downed then promptly eaten with nothing you can do about it.
As an example, it wouldn’t be fair to have a Monster caught with zero armour, but then he has a smorgasbord of corpses littered around, and he proceeds to gain full armour again no matter how much you shoot him.

They’re infinite unless you break through them, or you’ve got more than one Hunter on low health - they can’t all be shielded when you triple smack them in the face with a rock.

That would make shields pointless when you need them most. Medic on low health needs shields, Monster uses an ability whilst shield is on full juice, Medic down anyway, shield or no shield.

Shields are the staple of the Assault class, it’s not some kind of super buff.
Health region only comes if the perk is chosen or found during the game. Monsters can get it too by the way!

Wildlife attacks are frustrating, you’re wasting time and having more distance put between you and the Monster. Unless you’ve got a coward on the Monster, there’s plenty to do as the Hunters.

Dome has always been 45 seconds long.

You become stronger and you gain a bigger armour and health pool.
Hunters do not become any stronger throughout the course of the match unless they pick up some kind of buff.
At Stage 3 you’re playing the defensive game as the Hunters. It’s way too easy for a Stage 3 Monster to choose where he wants to to fight then force you there. Having spots like this gives an almost level playing field and allows the Hunters to set up a defence.

The timer begins at the 17 minute mark of the game. It stops the Monster hiding or running the entire time. Unless you’re playing against a good team, you shouldn’t be finding yourself at the timer during Stage 2.


#9

Yay! Walls-of-text buddies!


#10

IMO the leveling system is the worst part of this game - if you’re a low-level player playing against high-level players then you’re just going to get outclassed due to the perks increasing in power. The trapper in this place has likely taken 3-star movement speed, and there’s really no way for a low-level monster to counter that beyond finding the wildlife buff. Even at 40, if the trapper takes move speed and the monster doesn’t it can be pretty miserable.


The tradeoff is that Lazarus can’t heal through consistent damage, and he can only revive one person at a time. It also doesn’t remove strikes, only prevents them, so in a situation where Laz is down and someone gets revived by another hunter, they’ll keep that strike. Laz is the easiest medic to outplay right now, but it does change the game so there’s some learning to do.


There’s your problem. Don’t switch targets if your current target is almost dead. Hank can’t shield himself, so take him down first.


One of many reasons there’s a lot of people calling for a real ranking system. I’ve been a fairly vocal opponent of the leveling system since beta at least. That said, the effect that you’re seeing is likely the combination of players having mastered hunters and maxed perks - the two together are not an insignificant numbers boost. Theoretically the matchmaking should prevent these clashes from occurring, but that’s another story.


Perks are good IMO, but leveled perks are NOT. Mastery has bugged me from the beginning. All the hunters feel okay with the 10% mastery bonuses though, so this is just another case of the leveling being the bad part. It definitely gives incentive to grind and stat boost.


All domes last the same amount of time, but they also drop immediately if the trapper is downed. Monster should keep track of that the same way hunters keep track of when the monster’s abilities are coming up.


Hunters don’t get any stronger, so I’d imagine what you’re feeling is the terrain advantage and the hunters’ preparedness. In general, if you haven’t gotten any strikes by stage 3, you’re going to have a hard fight, but it’s still winnable, especially if you’ve got a decent chunk of timer left.


All in all your complaints sound a lot like what I used to think at the low levels - a lot of the things will go away as you get more experienced. It’s hard to draw parallels between this game and others due to it being pretty unique, so a lot of its challenges are just as unique.


#11

I would say practice Goliath because right now he has great damage and more mobility thank Kraken. Kraken tends to get domed much more easily and it competitive play Kraken has been kinda week currently especially due to auto aim Goliath had a smaller head so the auto aim doesn’t hit him in the head as much.


#12

Wow, lots to read here. Guess I’ll get through this and then go practise some more. Thanks for the help, Monsters and Hunters alike.

Edit: Another question. Any use in practising against bots? Sometimes I can’t get online so I play the bots. Should I just give them an advantage and see how I do?


#13

They help learn the basic basics, but even back at level 10 when I could play around with the bots all day with no fear of losing I still just got stomped by a team of players. I don’t really like monster though, so YMMV.


#14

Played a few more games. As Goliath I pretty much dominated, 2 wins only taking some damage in stage 2 in one game. Kraken won 1 and lost 1. Pretty easy win only taking minor damage, then in the second game I just couldn’t figure out Laz.

I’d get Torvald down and kill him but I’d just take too much damage trying to cover and then Laz would revive. I just don’t really get how I’m supposed to cover when the revive is so fast and he’s invisible. I run out of abilities and the melee doesn’t do any damage at all.

Seems so much easier to kill Laz and cover with Goliath.


#15

The bot hunters aren’t… very good… it would be good to face them so that you could try out different builds or routes to see where wildlife might be (including wildlife buff locations) without fear of being domed and horrendously punished. Typically the bots will group up, get wrecked by wildlife, and play very poorly compared to experienced players. Another fact is that the hunter bots don’t split up in order to cut off the monster, like people do.

Monster AI seems like a tougher match, but it’s still stupid occasionally (sometimes it breaks and the monster stands there like “Well what now?”)


#16

Kill the trapper every time you’re domed because Lazarus won’t dare show himself and can’t outheal your damage anyway. Free path to stage 3, profit.

Killing the support is also viable because he is usually used to give Lazarus a secondary cloak. A revivified player has his/her abilities on cooldown, so this limits Lazarus’ ability to hide when he comes in to revive support.

Which of these two options you take depends on how much health/armour you have to withstand the punishment from assault.


#17

What you don’t realize about Laz is that he doesn’t heal very well at all. His “heal” is his revive. I prefer Laz against me if I’m a monster instead of a different healer. He’s easily countered.

Just keep learning the game, you will see, it’s pretty well balanced. There are a few issues but they are working on balancing them out.


#18

Went 14-2 or so the past two days. Killed Laz with the Goliath and Wraith pretty easily. Only lost a game with Kraken against Laz and Goliath against Hank, Val, and whoever has the harpoon. I just couldn’t get away in either situation.

I was also using a different setup with Goliath and it was a really open map so I kept getting slowed. Don’t really know how to counter that yet.

Also, what do you use on a small map? I don’t see anything but Wraith working, and I’ve only tried her a few times.


#19

I’m not a great monster player so I don’t have the best advice for that. I do play mostly Hunter.


#20

For the lazarus problem once you get to know how to play, lazarus is an easy win for a monster player. For the other things you just need to give it time. Me for instance before I played as monster I did solo for a bit because i didn’t play the beta. Try playing solo and trying out different things. Getting good with the monsters comes with time.