Can we talk about "overpowered" and "tweaks" real quick?


#1

Apparently the definition is confused because I quite commonly see “it’s not overpowered, it just needs some tweaks”. Being overpowered means that it needs to be tweaked down to normal power levels. I don’t know why you people think that if something only needs tweaks, that it’s not overpowered. If normal is 50, being 53 is overpowered, being 82 is overpowered, being 407 is overpowered, being 50.6 is overpowered. All these things can be fixed with tweaks.

Can we please stop saying “it’s not overpowered” and following it with “it just needs some tweaking” now? There are only 3 things anything can be: “balanced”, “overpowered”, and “underpowered”. And from what I can tell from what I’ve seen from TRS, Balanced falls in the 48-52% WLR. Which means above 52% is overpowered and below 48% is underpowered.


#2

People should say it doesn’t need to be nerfed, just that it needs some tweaking.


#3

what if its over 9000!?!


#4

tweak
twēk/Submit
verb
1.
twist or pull (something) sharply.
“he tweaked the boy’s ear”
synonyms: pull, jerk, tug, twist, twitch, pinch, squeeze
“she tweaked his nose”
2.
informal
improve (a mechanism or system) by making fine adjustments to it.
“engineers tweak the car’s operating systems during the race”
synonyms: adjust, modify, alter, change, adapt; refine

o·ver·pow·er
ˌōvərˈpou(ə)r/
verb
past tense: overpowered; past participle: overpowered
defeat or overcome with superior strength.
synonyms: gain control over, overwhelm, prevail over, get the better of, outdo, gain mastery over, overthrow, overturn, subdue, suppress, subjugate, repress, bring someone to their knees, conquer, defeat, triumph over, worst, trounce; More
be too intense for; overwhelm.
“they were overpowered by the fumes”
synonyms: overcome, overwhelm, move, stir, affect, touch, stun, shake, devastate, take aback, leave speechless; More

To be fair, tweak means minor adjustments, overpowered means MUCH more than minor changes to fix.


#5

It’s because when people say overpowered they aren’t being as literal as you are right now. Basically, something’s a little out of line, it’s not so far out it’s overpowered but we still want to do something about it. It doesn’t help that “overpowered” is being used as a synonym for “unbeatable” which is far from the truth.

Hell, something could need tweaking not because it’s overpowered, but it could be much more interesting if it was built differently, so there’s that too.


#6

Well get literal and fall in line…not that kind of literal.


#7

Sorry, don’t quite get what you’re getting at.


#8

I was expecting a joke about everyone getting in line and falling over >.>


#9

Aaaah right, fair enough. Sorry I missed it :slight_smile: personally I’m in the group that don’t want to call Wraith overpowered but know one skill is out of line. Though, I have said “Wraith isn’t overpowered, Decoy is”. The move was annoying as hell when Wraiths spammed it (partially because as a Wraith player I feel I used it much more technically and watching decoys come after us when we weren’t even near the Wraith just felt like a waste on their part) but as a whole it never stopped me hunting and bringing them down. Luckily the Wraith’s sheer lack of armour and the counter methods for her other moves brought her back down to a reasonable level. Still, I think she’d be better off with something done about that one move.

If we were to speak literally, I suppose you could call her overpowered, but then I’d have to say “but not by much”.


#10

I had a friend that played as Wraith and after the first game he said “Wow Decoy is amazing! It does everything! When I wanted to escape, I press 3. When I wanted to kill wildlife, I pressed 3. When I wanted to kill you guys, I pressed 3. When I wanted to win the game, I pressed 3. it literally does everything!”

Yes, Decoy is the skill that needs dealt with, but just because it’s one skill, doesn’t make her any less overpowered.


#11

Weeeell it has too many upsides, but it’s still one part of a bigger package and doesn’t have 100% uptime (though considering that the cooldown starts once you pop decoy the rank 3 duration is absurd) so you need to take into account what happens the rest of the time (or when people play around Decoy). It definitely pushes up Wraith’s numbers but if it was the only thing you had to care for she’d probably have it up more often and it would be a lot worse. Hence why I’d say “but not by much”.

Because there is that time where the decoy isn’t a problem it does actually make her less overpowered.


#12

The problem is the cooldown is so short and the duration is so long at level 3 that it may as well not have a cooldown >.>


#13

Indeed, I completely agree. The biggest problem is that the uptime increases massively per level seeing as the cooldown starts when the decoy is used. I think the damage is an issue too, though the worst thing about it’s damage is that it does more damage than wraith at rank 3 but still gets the heavy attack after a warp. That thing just warps up to your face, uppercuts for over 50% of your health and sets up for more swings. Rather than lower it’s damage output I think that removing it’s heavy attack would be just fine.


#14

There are only 2 things I really want to see done.

  1. Heavily decrease uptime of decoy.
  2. Allow most if not all tracking to stay on, but have it apply to the decoy at the same time it applies to the actual wraith.
    2b) Remove invisibility from Decoy but reduce its damage and have it not break on attack.

#15

its the same as when people use the word theory when they mean hypothesis

the general vibe I get is tweak is when something isnt broken but needs afew little changes to make it balanced

and overpowered means its actually broken like if hank could call in a nuke which kills a stage 3 monster with full armour in 1 hit


#16

I usually take “tweak” to mean that something needs to be nerfed only slightly … or nerf one aspect but buffed in another.

If something is “overpowered”, it means that its very powerful to the point of game breaking, and needs a serious nerf across the board.


#17

Because something might be a pubstomper (and thus need tweaks for healthy gameplay) but not be OP against experienced/coordinated teams.

This is very common in Mobas where a character can be weak in high level play, not overpowered, but completely stomp out low level games where the skill level is much lower.

This isn’t a statement on Wraith btw. I’m just saying how I can see people claiming something isn’t OP but could be tweaked anyways.


#18

I was actually going to bring this up. How was the wraiths win loss vs pubs and against premades? If it annihilated all of the pubs but was 50/50 against premades, then it isn’t overpowered. The hunters are always at a disadvantage against monsters if they aren’t communicating. Just be careful not to make the microphones that nobody uses OP. That is what I’m worried about


#19

Yea, I played with a group of friends and we actually lost more to Kraken then we did to Wraith. We got quite good at fighting Wraith, especially those who relied on supernova.


#20

I’m with Wildcolt here. I played with a pre-made the entire beta, and Wraith was the only Monster we struggled with. We usually went 50/50 with them. But the Wraiths who knew what they were doing? We had around a 20% win ratio. It was simply because of Decoy, no other ability bothered us(Except Supernova at times). I had to switch my main Assault so I could hard counter Decoy with Hyde, because I could flamethrower and track the Wraith invisible. Though Supernova could use some toning down as well IMO. When I played Wraith, I used to it when I grew bored to simply insure each Hunter dropped one after another. The fact I could do that 100% of the time, is a little insane.