Can we get some equality?


Post Patch: After the patch we see all monsters take a win percentage drop due to the Tier 4 Hunters being introduced. Wraith tucks nicely in between Goliath and Kraken and the spread has been reduced to a 4.9% difference.
Goliath 45.5%
Kraken 50.4%
Wraith 48.6

Why would we nerf Kraken if his win rate dropped and is now even at 50%?

Val 47.4%
Lazarus 52.2
Caira 54.2

Overall we are pretty happy with the tuning adjustments on the retail characters with Val being the only exception.

Why are their above 50% winrates completely fine and you’re happy with it? Why isn’t Caira getting nerfed, or laz getting nerfed with above even winrates yet Kraken is?

Goliath 45.5%

Why am I not hearing about any buffs for Goliath? Nothing, not a word anywhere. The retail hunter winrates have soared and retail Monster winrates all dropped and not a word anywhere in dev land about helping them. The one sidedness is infuriating. Please balance both sides of the game EQUALLY.


Im fine with laz at 52% but cairai at 54% nerf her to the ground. Wraith im happy with goliath looks like he could use a buff.

According to these numbers anyway


Seeing Laz with an above 50% winrate immediately raises the question of the skill level of these stats.

Lazarus is incredibly gimmicky against good Monsters - and an equally extreme pubstomper against the unskilled.


Torvald gave laz a huge buff as no one can camp a corpse with him spamming mortars on the corpse. But ye one does question things like that.


You don’t need to camp the corpse, and any Assault can punish corpse camping anyway.

Just jump on Laz when he goes for the revive - if he revives, but dies for it you win assuming your health isn’t dangerously low.


Ye but with torvald even jumping on laz when hes reviving your going to lose 2-3bars of health those mortars are sickening


Lazarus can cloak ya know.

Corpse camping can cause the monster to take a ton of damage and Lazarus can rez in like a split second. If you take the time to dodge a mortar attack or something, by the time you are back Laz has them rezzed.


Because Telemetry doesn’t show player intelligence and shit. Whenever they see a character not work as intended or someone is deemed too good, they’ll nerf/buff that character. Just because people are bad and can’t beat a Caira doesn’t mean she’s OP. Is she the strongest medic? Probably (I don’t really know much about Slim yet, in the grand scheme of things) but not OP. On the other hand, I got smashed by Valerie about 7 times in a row by a REALLY good team even when she’s pretty much the worst medic (Laz can be quite unpleasant to deal with against a team that plays around him) and you know why? Because skill matters. And telemetry counts poor ass shitbags just as much as pro-players. The only thing she has going for her is that she’s more straight forward and easy to use than any other medic.


because every time there is a “buff Goliath” thread all the “pro” Goliath players come in and tell everyone that Goliath is super balanced.


where did you get the medic values? they look very old, here are the new wlr for the assaults posted by macman today

Markov - 49.4%
Hyde - 50.8%
Parnell - 47.6%

if t4 gets nerfed monster wlr will rise


Because Goliath can practically instant kill you with a good player


If were talking statistically than anything that is within a 44% ~ 60% could be an acceptable error margin… Your really getting particular looking at one characters “win rate” when there are 4 other characters that affect a characters win rate… I would say the number may need to be tweaked. But calling statistical differences inequality is extreme… Picking no certain character doesn’t garuntee a win…there are plenty of horrible krakens out there for instance

Besides us black people been tryna get equality for 200+ years… At least give TRS one


before the balance patch we had monsters at win rates slightly above 50%. it’s only fair that now the hunters are getting better win rates.

also a higher win rate doesn’t immediately mean a hunter is too strong, because it takes 4 hunters to win. if one of those is OP, the win rate for the others will go up as well. so to figure out, what needs and what doesn’t need a nerf, you need to look at more than just win ratings. e.g. the currently low win rates of the monsters could be, because the new hunters are a little bit too strong and because they are new they get picked more often. and because monsters haven’t adjusted to them yet.

as for kraken: IMO it doesn’t need a real nerf (as in “reduce its damage and/or mobility by decreasing some numbers”) but some changes in mechanics to make fighting it more intuitive. especially lightning strike from a good kraken is impossible to dodge. dodge too soon and he’ll adjust aim and hit you. dodge too late and you don’t get out of the area and still get hit. dodge behind cover and he’ll just aim next to or behind it and still hit you or even just fly around it. dodge up and you still get hit as well. rock throw in comparison is easy. goliath has to stand still and do the animation to tell what’s about to happen. and the rock only flies from the goliath to the target and once it’s in the air the aim can’t be adjusted. so you just have to get something between yourself and goliath or jump at the right moment and you’re good.


They are fresh from yesterday, not old at all buddy. Both pre tier 4 patch and post tier 4 patch medic values were posted by devs, post patch are the ones I posted.


where do people get these numbers from? i really wanna see the thread where all this get posted…


I think you misunderstand my feelings of it. It is just a complete opposite reaction when you see monsters at 50% and say they need nerf, winning too much and then turn around and see medics at 54% and say I like where they are! It just doesn’t make any sense to me. I get Kraken had an accidental buff the last balance patch, but the fact is his winrate dropped by their own admission. Even before he dropped he wasnt 60%, he wasn’t even 54% like Caira, he was less than that. Hes still a 50/50 monster. When you nerf something at 50% winrate what do you honestly expect to happen?

The point is this: Focusing on RETAIL characters as all the stats posted were retail only…They are not touching the retail hunters that are already high, but they are touching the monsters that are equal, and are not touching the monsters that are low. Add those up and the conclusion is obvious monsters will again get weaker whereby making hunters even stronger.


Click Dev tracker at the top of the main forum page, it shows every dev post including all these stats from yesterday.


I do agree with your general concept. But with Goliath I get the idea that they take it as the standard monster, as it has been around since day one and has been playtested to death, so they kinda use him as the reference monster. His wins should be higher, yes. But it might be due to the fact that he’s the starting monster, so people need to play him to unlock the rest. That could explain a lower win rate, which is probably not so low as it would be if in addition to this, experienced players lost all the time.

Plus I kinda have a feeling that they do favor a little bit the hunter side, because it’s the most “mainstream” side of the gameplay and what most people will get into. That’s my guess.


wasnt kraken at like 56 % in the last days?

especially now that kraken got kinda buffed/bugged and is countering t4.

and laz with 50% … which means those numbers are saying nothing.

should be like 10% Kappa


I feel like some things were taken out of context.

He is only using the difference between the classes as a judgement. You need to look at the difference between monsters. not the difference between medics and monsters.

He knows the T4 are throwing off the telemetry and they are getting nerfed in the next micro patch.

If all the T4 hunters are the causing higher wins (as everyone is saying) the nerfs to them will lower all of the hunter W/L ratios and raise all of the monsters.