Beginning to Lose Faith in Turtle Rock


#1

Gotta make you wonder right? You’d think that since the core aspect of this game revolves around the monster, Behemoth would be incredibly polished, instead we get this rock monster who immediately makes these 90 degree spastastic turns when he runs into wildlife, and makes full stops into trees that would otherwise break from normal monster movement. I am alittle more lenient on them towards Behemoth slow hit times and build up before using his abilitties, maybe during testing they thought it was adequate. . That doesn’t excuse the ludicrously doubled pricing of the monster which seems criminal to me at best. They all require work, balancing, polish, etc. There’s no other reason to double it’s price other than simply just 'cuz. And that kind of mentality and business practice is why I’ll wait for the season pass to either hit the bargain bin, or find it for less than half it’s worth on ebay and such.

(To all those on PC who haven’t bought it, there’s a fella selling one for 15 dollars on ebay, shame I can’t find one for Xbox though :/)


#2

Behemoth does need some balancing, that’s true, but if you expected a complete game with so many working parts (16 hunters and 4 monsters) so quick then I regret to inform you that it’ll take a while until balancing starts to even out. My advice is to be the monster or hunter you want and enjoy playing until that time occurs.

As for pricing, that’s all on you. You should only pay for what you think it’s worth so by all means wait until you find it a better price. Personally I like supporting them since they’re supporting us with free maps and modes.


#3

“That doesn’t excuse the is ludicrously doubled price of the monster seems criminal to me at best.”

Counterpoints

Each monster has THREE models and sets of textures they have to create, one each for Stage 1, 2 and 3.

They also have to create the evolution animations and models from 1 to 2 and 2 to 3.

This means they have triple the rigging, texturing and animating work compared to a hunter.


#4

LEAVE TRS ALONE!!!


#5

What are you talking about? So quick? They had YEARS of development for 12 hunters and 3 monsters. There is only one truth and it is the same for all game developers. Balancing and cheat protection are at the bottom of the priority list.

What OP is asking is not a problem with behemoth either. If you leap wrongly into a tree as goliath you might be stuck or catapult 200m into the air. You get stuck in trees with all monsters and for that again - years of time. It just wasn’t used to adress that particular issue.

The only thing you can hope to change is bandaids for behemoth. He will probably end up outright ignoring most “minor” obstacles and clip through them because otherwise this would need a rework for the whole movement system and it was needed since alpha and didn’t happen and it won’t happen now.

However increasing the cost of the monster is fair - it is indeed more work to do a monster compared to a singular hunter.


#6

Balancing takes a big player base. They only recently had that option with the beta and even then only xbox had the wraith. Furthermore, behemoth didn’t have many people to test so balance was in the hands of the few testers they did have. Now that he’s out though, they’re getting tons of data and can change him accordingly.


#7

True balancing takes a bit bigger testing. To get those insane imbalances we are seeing now out it actually only needs 1 competitive gamer being involved throughout the development phase of particular monster/hunter whatever.

If you say they don’t have such a guy, then this is a company decision and not because there aren’t the right people for this job on this planet.

I am pretty sure there is room to fit one guy in that sole purpose is to make additional content somewhat decent upon release - numbers wise.


#8

They will have micro patching in the future, which means they can react much quicker if something isn’t quite right.


#9

One person can never handle balancing alone. Being competitive doesn’t mean perfection and they will definitely be biased towards certain tactics, perks, and routes on different maps or against different hunters/monsters. Plus they seem to be balancing more toward averages than competitive play so they need many people’s data to get an ‘average’ player’s data.


#10

Agreed, Thinking balancing is a one man job is naive.


#11

I love the idea of this game and would gladly support it, it’s just that their business practice is turning me off, first attempting to sell customization, then doubling the price of the monster for no good reason other than because they can.


#12


I can’t say anything else. :laughing:


#13

Why do you think you need more than 1 person to find that:

Cabot dealt more damage than any assault?
Wraith will never be balanced due to decoy/invis against beginners.
Wraith can get out of dome range upon hearing the click of the dome?

Just like people ( e.g. like me you can check the posts if you want ) predicted from a single video that you will be able to spam the shit out of roll -> heavy attack -> roll -> cancel -> heavy attack with behemoth. People that didn’t even play the monster just watched some footage for a couple of minutes.

I don’t mean it offensive, but to me it seems because you think that you wouldn’t be able to deal with balancing in a quick and efficient way you project that to everyone. For example I don’t understand how people are able to remember all that geography stuff. It is beyond me, but that just means different people, different talents.

Of course I don’t think that a single person can absolutely with 0 error balance a game by himself - that is also not needed. At the same time that is something you simply magicianed into my mouth because I didn’t say that in any way if you read my posts carefully. I said insane imbalances. That doesn’t imply that it is perfect in the end - just in a better state.
What is needed is a guy that makes sure that the cabot gun doesn’t need to be nerfed by !50! %, but e.g. 10%. Because in the meantime people had more fun, were more likely to stay because no major concerns were found.


#14

Dude, you just gotta have faith!


#15

Yes, 1 person CAN FIND a balence issue.
But it takes SEVERAL people to FIX that issue.
No one person will always have the right idea when it comes to fixing something.


#16

Ah forgive me, didn’t know you loved buying every single camo that was available compared to the SOLE one you earn for eliting. BF4 anyone?


#17

Is it weird I’m yet to have issues getting stuck on things as behemoth? He’s a weird clunky glass cannon who looks like shit but hes got good movement with roll as long as you always take speed perk. He’s got some inertia sure but cough boulder cough.


#18

Doesn’t work like this. While the input of competitive games is indeed valuable (at least some of them are able to provide valuable input), you also need metrics and a big player base to spot subtle issues.

As far as player enjoyment goes, the input of a competitive gamer is about as valuable as the input from an obnoxious asshole who will try to find all the possible ways to grief players, because sometimes fixing griefing issues is more important than achieving perfect balance and making sure that raising this gun’s damage by 0.7% does not break competitive game.

I’ve said it in the past, but you can develop a MOBA champion over 8 months, test it internally and on various test servers, it will still see more hours of effective play after 1 day of release than after 8 months of testing (this obviously depends on your staffing and your playerbase, but the core principle remains)


#19

I laughed at you because Evolve isn’t the only game that makes you buy cosmetics. The fact that you say that buying a skin is something to be shamed for is laughable.
I can list several games that sell yuo skins for money.


#20

I can tell you have no real arguments by the fact, that you try to hold on to the fact, that a single person can’t always find the right answer. What a biggie :wink:

This is the reality:
Wraith drastically changed
Val drastically changed
Griffin drastically changed (stealth detection)
Cabot drastically changed (remember dps cut in half)
Caira drastically changed (remember mobility bonus to the team halfed I think 30s cd -> 60 IIRC)
Kraken majorly overhauled (vortex bread and butter weakened, consistent landing force)
Hyde drastically changed.
Bucket/Laz still in for solid overhauls
So the logical conclusion is that the majority of the game was released heavily unbalanced.

Defend that if you must, but don’t pretend it takes 10 people to change a lightbulb either.

@Vathar Actually I consider a competitive gamer to be knowledgeable about tons of games. What I want to point out is that there should be a guy somewhere inbetween game-testing and game-development that draws attention to big incoming issues like the noobslaughter a wraith will do and try to find a solution. My solution would have been to make her unlock via lvl 35 for example as a first step, second would have been an introductionary video when you play against her for the first time. Both aren’t adressing any numbers, but they equip people with knowledge/experience they actually need to take her down (pre-nerf).

So for example imagine a guy like this is involved and hears that a new monster is coming - a stealth monster. Immediately the danger marks explode over his head. !Evelynn! !Rikimaru! Those concerns pop out and that way the monster might either come out differently or as my example would come in a fashion that equips the players with knowledge as their buff.

I also don’t argue that you need masses to find subtle stuff, but cabot/val/caira/hyde/wraith/vortex/pounce spam, the things I listed weren’t subtle - they were big, you could see them coming. Just like you could see the moronic skirting coming.

I believe the industry to be at fault, competitive gamers aren’t assholes per se. They are just people that strip your game naked in minutes and see what it boils down to and if you got one on your team it is quite likely that you will save money via less losses of costumers that leave due to poor balancing(e.g. getting slaughtered by wraith all the time) or the fact that you have to iterate less approaches to achieve acceptable balance. Those 2 things have a real cost attached to them and while I agree a single person can’t make it perfect. A single person with the right job can make a hell of a difference.

Edit: To be a bit more precise: I want to see TRS hire a guy that sole purpose is to find blatant imbalances, fun/group play detrimentals and to raise concerns as things are developed and make sure that issues keep coming up and aren’t forgotten and unloaded unto the customer. Excuse my strange language I have been up way too long ~24h+