Any chance a dev with a grasp of game design theory could take a look at this real quick


#1

I’ve been having a discussion about the respawn timer mechanics and I was just wondering if someone involved in the design process could tell me if I’m framing this right or if the timer is serving a completely different purpose.

"Here’s my understanding of the reasoning behind the timer as it is now. The very short initial respawn timer is meant as an initial buffer for the hunters. You have a stage one fight, you mess up and one of you goes down. He’ll be back very quickly and you have another chance to go at it the right way, mindful of what went wrong before the dome goes down and the monster escapes.

As more people go down, the game is less forgiving since you’ve already had a couple second chances and apparently the monster is just better than you.

And that’s great! That exactly how the game should be balanced and it works very well and feels good in that situation. But we run into trouble in the type of situation described above in the initial post. That fight was the first time our party really fought together, so there were bound to be some mixups. Regardless of that, we performed very well, managing to drive the monster away before taking losses we couldn’t recover from. Or at least that’s how it would have worked, if we hadn’t been slapped with a big respawn timer since it was stage three.

The situation was still a “first fight”, but even more difficult since it’s against a stage three. We performed well given the circumstances, but we didn’t have that recovery mechanic that’s supposed to make up for it being our first time working together against that monster.

Instead, the game just kinda says, “Sorry but you guys aren’t supposed to have a chance at this stage,” and the monster goes off to armor up (note that his recovery mechanic is very much intact and actually better since stage three has more armor) and comes back after thirty seconds to finish off what he had started, with no chance for us to do any better."

"I guess what feels bad is that there’s no second chance. I know we shouldn’t have let it get to stage three, but we did really well in the fight, and the monster just wins since game mechanics gave it a recovery mechanic and not us.

That’s what it comes down to. We messed up while tracking it, it messed up while fighting us, but it had a recovery mechanic still in place and we didn’t, meaning we lose just because.

Especially because there’s an easy way to make the system work, which I outlined in the last paragraph of my initial rant. I wish there was some way to flag down one of the developers for this one, since I’m no game designer (and I love hearing from actual ones.) I’d like to know if they were thinking about it as a recovery mechanic like I was, or whether it was serving a completely different purpose and I’m way off base."

And here’s a link to the original discussion if you are for some reason interested in a bunch of unqualified people hash their way to a level of understanding.

Thanks! <3


#2

eyyyy look at dat toad repping xD I hope I was able to make the topic a bit more thoughtful. Food for thought even. It is a good topic with Stage 2.


#3

Yeah. That was a good discussion.


#4

In my opinion, if the monster gets to stage 3 and you haven’t fought it yet despite the trapper being able to point in the direction of the monster every 30 seconds or so (not mention a quick speed boost) and ANY member of your team can dome it then you have been outplayed.

The Short cooldown timer on the dropship is there to prevent stage 1 wipes since the stage one monster is more dangerous now than it used to be. if the monster is able to sneak enough (much harder in the new mechanics) then why should it then be punished with a harder stage 3 fight?


#5

That’s not really something you can deny, but at the same time, if a monster is too much of a wuss to fight much before stage 2, does it deserve the huge advantage of a two minute dropship?

I think, in this new game, two minutes is too long unless the monster has earned it.


#6

Keep in mind that the monster fights against the timer as well. Each second spent not fighting the hunters is a second less to kill them.


#7

We Hunters prefer to get our punishment personally… from the Monster… at Stage 3 within sight of the Power Relay.

That would be punishment we deserve. :slight_smile:

Right now, at certain times it’s more like:

Markov: "There it is! Open the bay doors, Buckets!"
Buckets: "Sorry guys! We’re going home!"
Val: "Hank is still down there! We can save him."
Buckets: “Nope!”

Hank: “Noooooooooo!!! Come back!!!”

MONSTER WINS! :stuck_out_tongue:


#8

Too much of a wuss?

no hes doing exactly what hes meant to be doing. open the map at stage one and you get a hint saying something like “the hunters are coming, run, eat and stage up!”

its the hunters job to force the fight, the monster is trying to get strong enough to take them out. the dropship timer used to be 2 minutes no matter what, the only reason it was changed is because sometimes the monster is skilled enough or the hunters unlucky enough that the game ended in one encounter at stage one. its meant to prevent the curb stomp but once the monster hits stage 2 then the playing field is level and the real fight begins.


#9

It isn’t supposed to be a buffer for your first fight, it is supposed to be a buffer for Stage 1 fights.

See, Stage 3 monsters are supposed to be scary and wreck face. But players would just Flee til 3, when they are at their strongest, which makes sense. However this created a boring(for some at least) playstyle, especially for the hunters. So…

TRS wanted to have monsters fight at lower stages. What did they do? Buff lower staged monsters. Okay. Now hunters are getting screwed. What did they do? Allow hunters to have more of an advantage at Stage 1 and 2 that doesn’t promote fleeing monsters.

This, coupled with the Dome changes effectively killed FT3.


#10

True, but in the end once fighting begins, the timer is paused. So it’s not a huge issue for them.

Running stage one, yes. That’s intended.

Running all of stage two and not fighting? That’s just being a bad player.

You’re supposed to run stage one, yes, maybe score the odd strike if possible, but you’re supposed to fight, all out fight, stage 2.

The developers themselves conceded this. Evolve Stage 2 is literally focused on preventing flee till three tactics and forcing fights every stage.

So no, he’s not doing exactly what he’s meant to be doing. The opposite, in fact.


#11

again though, they are called “hunters”

they are supposed to hunt the monster. if you open the map at stage 2 it says “continue to evolve or attack for an EARLY victory” (Capitalising my own for emphasis)

this tells me that the purpose of the monster is not to attack the hunters at stage 2. Wiping the hunters at stage 2 is considered early an early win, at least within the mechanics of the game.


#12

I just personally feel like there would be more sense of fulfillment for both Monster and Hunter players if we could have a proper showdown at the Power Relay stage of the game.

The monster is S3 and has all this armor, but probably lost a large chunk of HP.
The Hunters probably have HP strikes as well, and are no stronger than when they started.

Do we really need the Dropship Timer interfering?


#13

I mean, that’s nice and all. But the developers themselves and all long time players have said that not fighting until stage 3 is unintended and “toxic.” And as I recall from pro tournaments or whatever, no monster flees till three. It’s always a big fight at two. Which is how the creators of the game have basically said was intended.


#14

I believe you are relatively new to the game (correct me if im wrong I thought I saw you post as much on another thread) so trust me when I say this, as you get more experienced at the game it goes from feeling like the monster is OP to the monster is UP. when you have a team of hunters that know their role and work well together the monster can feel pretty helpless. there was even a tactic against sneakier players (I’m looking at you wraith) of the hunters just camping the relay and waiting for the monster to stage up because it was an easier fight for the hunters that way.

If you added 10 second respawns on top of that the monster would literally have no chance.


#15

no the toxicity of “flee til three” came from the fact that even when you domed the monster, the monster could mitigate almost all the damage by running in circles around the dome, wait for it to drop and keep running. that tactic is also non viable now thanks to the variable dome time. if you mitigate a whole dome you have given yourself a massive disadvantage as the monster.

the only way that the monster can get to stage 3 now without a fight is if the hunters are completely incapable of hunting it down. like i said, outplayed.


#16

Yeah I see what you mean, and it is true that if teams can Cycle effectively with Shield and Healing Burst then the Monster player can feel helpless. I’m trying to look for Perk Stacks that will actually help add to Monster helplessness as I play Public and you want to leave little to chance there.

But that is also why I instinctively don’t like Dropship Timers getting longer… It’s something I can’t control. :stuck_out_tongue:


#17

Yes, I agree. If you let a monster flee till three unscathed, you’ve been outplayed. No argument there. That does not, however, mean the monster played optimally. Playing optimally would include getting the odd strike, fighting now and then, etc. Not just running until S3.

However, I still do not think that being outplayed like that once is justification for the colossal disadvantage that is a two minute dropship timer. That’s just overkill.


#18

Or your Trapper doesn’t know what “4” does. It happened to me once. I had to tell him like three times to use it.


#19

Im pretty sure you cant get a 2 minute drop timer without any downs, I would have to check on that.


#20

I think you can, but I’m actually not sure.

As I recall it’s an extra thirty seconds for every evolve, and it might go up for time increased or something. But I’m really not sure.