An analysis on the fundamental problems about Slims healing of other Hunters


#1

Continuing the discussion from How can Slim be made a more viable medic?:

So recently in this discussion, I discovered that Slims maximum healing ouput is insane, yet he is considered too weak. I was using values that resulted in 3 healing burst in 3.9 seconds as an average value with perfect accuracy. This is insane 178 hps (3x231/3.9). (Val has 110).

So today I was looking into the timing using a programmable mouse with millisecond-delays and most of it is actually correct:

  • You need to wait 0.25 seconds before shooting again and before reloading.
  • The reload time is 1.66 seconds
  • The healburst has a cooldown of 20 seconds

What I did not factor in is the following:

  • The healburst has a duration of 0.5 seconds
  • To register a click, there needs to be a time between pressing down and releasing the mousebutton
  • Intense combat scenes leed to lag
  • A human can not time it perfectly and will hit the button twice in 0.25 seconds or only once in 0.4 seconds

Overall the following values worked 100% of the time:
(Mouse pressed, 0.075 delay, Mouse released, 0.275 delay) x 8, 1.7 delay, Mouse pressed, 0.075 delay, Mouse released.

In total you thus can get 3 HBs in 4.55 second = 152.3 hps. Still way higher than Val. (I will only look at his abilities to heal a focused Hunter, which excludes tumble on Slim and the healing drone)l

Now, what are the reasons for his weak healing in practice? For once, accuracy. Missing a lot of pellets means to wait longer for the next healburst. But consider that after 20 seconds, the HB can not recharge more. This makes only 36 out of 48 pellets from the first 6 shots count. You can naturally miss a few but still get the full healing. On the other Hand, if you fire slower you get of course slower healburst too.

Accuracy of course should not affect high level players that much. Also they probably have the timing right too. Or don’t they? Since the healburst has a 0.5s duration where it can not recharge, factoring in the time needed to actually press the HB-Button, this leaves an awkward lot of time where 8 pellets can return from the Monster, but do nothing. 8.8 seconds of healburst wasted.

Slim’s problems in healing a focused hunter are in short:

  • timing of shots
  • timing of Healburst
  • long ranges
  • small monsters
  • fast monsters
  • low accuracy overall

I have some ideas on how to solve this too, but feel free to leave your own :wink:

  1. Lower fire rate
    If he can’t fire that fast, the proper timing of his shots becomes easier. Also the recoil has more time to normalize. This provides a more consistent shooting speed at all ranges, thus a more consistent healing. Of course this would need more adjustments like damage.

  2. Lower cooldown reduction per pellet
    The lower the value of one pellet, the less you will need to hit all of them.

  3. More pellets per shot
    More pellets just means a higher likelyhood of hitting.

  4. The energy can be stored temporarily
    The green strings that come out of the monster when Slim shoots it fill the Heal Burst once they reach him. But if they reach him when it is not on cooldown, they are wasted. But if they could fill the HB instantly when its on cooldown, and have to travel when it is not, they would reach it on cooldown more often.

  5. Different Speeds for the green Strings
    When they Strings hit at different times, it is very likely that most of them hit during cooldown.

  6. ~60% of the pellets of 2 shots to fill a HB
    This makes only sense with 1, because nobody wants to spamm the button twice a second, and if so the HBs would be too weak. What I mean by this is that you need like 10 out of 16 pellets to land to fully recharge a HB. This gives more room for missing.

  7. Shorten the duration of the healburst (0.5->0.1)
    A minor buff to all medics, but it would work wonders on slim, who uses the HB the most.


#2

Only 178hps? Didnt they buff that thing


#3

Thank you!! This explains so much! I’ve felt like every once in a while one or two shots worth of my heal burst would just get “lost”. It’s especially common when being focused and spamming fire/burst as fast as possible. This perfectly explains why it happens.

This is definitely something the devs should look into.


#4

I’d like to see an overcharge heal burst mechanic if they can code it. Meaning you can hold 1.5 worth of a healburst allowing for one full healburst and then for .5 to stay in reserve for the next heal burst.


#5

I like that idea. It’s simple and it could be a big help.


#6

I made that suggestion in the other topic too. But I think that is more likely to be seen for an adaptation. If so you can go full crazy and have him “store” like 4 HBs at once.


#7

That’s why I say limit him to around 1.5. Basically what it does is allows your second heal burst to only take 2 full pellet hits, and makes sure you aren’t wasting out on pellets because the worst feeling as Slim is to hit a full shot for only having 2-3 pellets counting.


#8

For everyone else who needs an explanation on this :wink:


#9

SO MANY NUMBERS!! So confusing for my little mind to handle!!


#10

The next patch should remove the duration on the heal burst, as well as making the leech gun hold left click to fire. (max rate of fire was reduced a small amount) I will be looking into Slim soon to see if he needs more help but those changes helped a lot.


#11

Worst case scenario, shooting at a Monster that comes closer (btw the green Strings move at 30m/s)

  • (0.00s) You shoot at the Monster 4.5 m away
  • (0.10s) You use the HB
  • (0.15s) 8 pellets get to you --> WASTED
  • (0.25s) You shoot at the Monster 3 m away
  • (0.35s) 8 pellets get to you --> WASTED
  • (0.50s) You shoot at the Monster 1.5 m away
  • (0.55s) 8 pellets get to you --> WASTED
  • (0.60s) HB is used and cooling down
  • (0.75s) The Monster tumbles you, you can’t shoot and have 20s to wait for the next HB

Congratulations, you just lost to bad timing!


#12

I dont understand what you mean by reduced duration. And left click to fire? I guess you mean PC?


#13

Have you planning this all along or have you just decided this a few minutes ago :smirk:

Anyways, I am glad to see that this will change! :smile:

If you use the healburst, it takes 0.5 seconds to empty its bar in the bottom right corner of your screen. Before that it can not recharge.


#14

Ohhh, ok lol I get it now


#15

I guess the better way to put it is the Leech gun is an automatic now.

The change Macman hinted at a little while back for Slim was the change I just described.


Slim fire assist?
Slim suggestions
Should Slim be Buffed or Nerfed again?
#16

Question!

Does it still have the spread built into it?


#17

Automatic? cool! Oh and tutorial videos be changed?


#18

There are no changes to Slim’s spread but it is something I will look at to make his Kraken match up better in the future. [quote=“SunnyLover, post:17, topic:80194, full:true”]
Automatic? cool! Oh and tutorial videos be changed?
[/quote]
No update for the tutorial video in the patch, personally I don’t think that the change is large enough o warrant it, but we will see.


#19

Fair enough. Just wondering if it would be.


#20

Is this for all medics, or just for Slim?