Add a cooldown to sneak pounces. A discussion


#1

Just want to share my thoughts about sneak pounces:
Personally I don’t like the current spam pounce. Neither as a monster nor as a hunter. It lessens the epicness of a fight.
So what I suggest is a longer cooldown for sneak pounces.
Why? Because then you have to think twice about when to use this ability. You could ambush a lonely hunter or use it in combination with an ability during an open fight. It’d add a new strategic detail.
The importance of sneak pouncing for killing wildlife is a thing to discuss.
Feel free to share your opinion :grin:


#2

Add a 15 seconds cooldown to something that is interrupted by a sneeze? I don’t see myself agreeing with that suggestion anytime soon :confused:


#3

Fifteen seconds is beyond unreasonable, especially considering you need it to help against kiting hunters. I feel like a three second delay, if any, would be fine.


#4

I just think about spamming sneak pounces within a fight. For example Kelders snak-pounce-death-spiral combo can incap a hunter before the others even realize he got sneak pounced. Same with other DOT abilities.
And ok 15s might be a bit too much :sweat_smile:


#5

It does have a 2 sec cooldown or something like that. I like it as it is though.


#6

A longer cooldown would also make ko rounds in arena mode more intense. Because after the monster failed a pounce you got some time without having to expect another.


#7

I think the cooldown between pounces is just fine. Shooting the monster during a pounce cancels it and puts it back on cooldown, hunters should be focusing on doing that rather than making pounce less accessible.


#8

Proper jetpack management resolves this issue.
The issue people have with jetpack is from Monsters whom use it to sustain a combo. The Hunter players are required to adjust accordingly, you need to dodge effectively to break the monsters combo sequence.

All abilities can be categorized in 2 categories. Vertical or Horizontal. I’ve written guides about this in the past, and I believe a Parnell Pro-tip will be coming soon on this topic.

But in summary, you can dodge stealth pounce by either jumping UP
or INTO the monsters start location.

As you get placed against higher level and Better monster players, this will become more critical.
If you’re teammates are Onpoint, even IF you’re grabbed, you’ll be released almost immediately, and you SHOULD be able to escape.

A Missed stealth pounce HAS punishment already, If the person is ACCURATELY utilizing the stealth pounce Mechanic, why punish those players? Reward strong mechanical play by Punishing Misplays, which is currently being done.

#TLDR:
Hunters have options available to them. Dont punish monsters because Hunters dont conserve jetpack, and they dont realise how strong alternative perk choices are.


#9

^This

Tenchars


#10

Seriously you gotta get a job at TRS and lead the balance team.


#11

A man can dream


#12

How about a longer cooldown BUT also a higher amount of damage to break the sneak pounce?


#13

Or just completely disable pounce when in open combat, but thats just my 2 cents.


#14

I don’t believe that pouncing needs any change and to @Quirkly it might as well be if you have teammates that are still alive. Again, see above.


Another issue is that pouncing isn’t “sneak” pouncing. There’s a large difference between the two and it is the misunderstanding that it is a “sneak pounce” that caused people to find it toxic.

It’s a pounce, not a “sneak pounce”. That’s the large difference. Not to mention this and many other suggestions have been done before.
I see no issue with pouncing, clearly the Devs don’t either, and a fair amount of the community shares my opinion. It doesn’t appear it will change any time soon if at all.


#15

To be honest I’m on both sides on this.

I really, really think Monsters need to rely on pouncing a lot. So introducing a long cooldown would - not even kidding - create a huge dent in their balance. As a Goliath main I can’t really use it during combos all that often, but I do rely on it just as much as Charge to get me around pillars, trees or sharp corners to chase pesky Hunters.
Other Monsters use it during ability combos. cough Kraken cough


It’s hard to decide. I wouldn’t want to see pouncing becoming less useful as a way of keeping on target, and even during some ability combos I think it works fair and clever.
Examples of it being clever:

  • Leap Smash > Pounce
  • Death Spiral > Pounce
  • Abduct > Pounce
  • Decoy > Pounce (for now)
  • Tongue Grab > Pounce
  • Rock Wall > Pounce
  • Acid Spit > Pounce

However there’s also some ability combos where it’s just… too much. Sucks the fun right out of it for the Hunters because pouncing by nature is draining the Hunters’ full health while they at no point get to defend themselves without help.
So if that draining process becomes lightning fast because of some extra damage involved… it quickly becomes frustrating to deal with.

Examples of it being plain frustration:

  • Banshee Mines > Pounce
  • Vortex > Pounce
  • Rock Wall > Pounce perhaps? I personally don’t see it, but with so many people calling Bob OP lately then surely they find this combo very annoying

Again, I’m fine with getting pounced in a combo when the Monster utilizes it as a quick way to close distance.
But when it’s used to make abilities that are otherwise very easy to dodge but punishing if you don’t, suddenly impossible to dodge then that’s another scenario. So much fun for the Hunters to get hit by a Banshee Mine during a pounce. Half their health is gone before they even know it.


However since Kraken is Kraken and will always be Kraken, I gotta look at the bigger picture here and conclude that pouncing for the other Monsters isn’t really as big a deal mid-combat.

I will say though that one thing needs to happen. If pouncing keeps the same short cooldown, it might definitely be useful to get rid of the insulting "SNEAK ATTACK" header everytime someone gets pounced.
There’s nothing sneaky about it so I see where @Quirkly might be coming from.

Perhaps it might work to prevent any secondary damage sources from hurting the Hunters during a pounce. So no Banshee Mine damage during a pounce. No extra damage from Death Spiral. Even getting pounced in the center of a Lava Bomb pool would not add any extra damage to the pounce.

Think that through before quickly saying “NO!” to that. It’s not a very big change but it gets rid of the extremes.


#16

No, the thing that made it toxic was that its really shitty to just randomly have all control taken away from you.
I just hate pounces in general, and frankly wish it wasn’t a mechanic, but it feels a lot more fair to get pounced when you fuck up and end off alone, rather than just being jumped on because they can.
And yes, I know the sneak pounce ends almost immediately if your teammates are good, but it still feels like complete shit.


#17

I don’t complain about (sneak) pouncing in generell I just don’t like the massive use in open combats. I think a longer cooldown would simply reduce the spamming factor and would NOT affect the tactical use from time to time.

Edit: I actually like it when you ambush a lone hunter with a sneak pounce. I even like it when you pull a sick combo during a fight. I just don’t like gorgons (another example) which pounce you every damn second (hyperbolic). And when thay pounce you into an acid pit you’re down within a blink…


#18

Well given how spammy everything else is I don’t really care that Monsters have a single spammy yet ineffective ability.


#19

Kudos to that.
Some people focus only on balance while fun is a factor to be taken into consideration as well.

It’s funny because if you mention it, most people will jump to the defense of "But look at all the crap Hunters can pull off!"
It’s hypocritical. @10shredder00, you always complain about the Spore Clouds for what little fun they bring to the game and how they limit your options.
For that reason I really didn’t think you would vouch for the Monster having the ability to constantly take control away from the Hunters mid-combat, no matter how easy it is for teammates to shoot the Monster off.

And I think I can practically quote anyone when it comes to harpoons and tranqs being annoying.
Because they take away control.

Ergh… Not gonna say “I knew you would say that”. Or actually I suppose I just did. Read above. I thought ahead.


#20

The way I see it is. I’m not defending it. Spamability isn’t fun, at all, I should know.

However if they make one big update that removes spam then I’m all for nerfing pounce. Problem is there’s people like Abe, Slim, Torvald, Crow, and more that can just spam abilities.

As long as those are somehow allowed in the system then I don’t think it’s fair to remove it from Monsters.


Remove spam from both sides or leave it alone. That’s how I see it.