About one of the graffitti and its meaning


#83

To paraphrase what you said above… Atheism is not Satanism.

Also, creating a fictional world where someone (perhaps in despair) might write that on a wall, is not the same as promoting that belief.


#84

Hahah. The game is not Satanic.

When we were making all the graffiti we tried to think of what kind of things people would write on the walls and in notes and what the collapse of the civilization would inspire people to scribble on the walls.

Think about all the crazy things people believe in our (more or less) ordered and civilized society… now peel away that thin veneer of order and stability and insert an uncontrollable plague that turns people into ravenous zombies… people would lose their minds!

So, there would definitely be people who would look at the zombie apocalypse in a biblical sense and would would cover the walls in all sorts of religious messages. Some people would think that the denizens of hell had come to earth, some people would think that the end times had come. Some people of faith would have their belief completely shattered by the horrors they would witness.

So if you’re looking for a theme, I would say the environments were crafted to be convincing and believable in order to create an immersive experience for the player.


#85

giphy (1)


#86

Noooo… here we go again. :wink:


#87

#88

I see, I’ll tell him that!

What about Valve though @SlabOMeat ? You worked with them, do they have anything to do with satanism? I know the writter Marc Laidlaw is fan of occultism but don’t know about the others at the company…

Also guys I know I’ve been a pain in a&% but I REALLY appreciate your replies and the fact you actually explain everything to me! :smiley:


#89

I have absolutely zero knowledge of anyone’s religious beliefs at VaIve, or any other company for that matter. But I feel pretty confident when I say that the company is not in league with Lucifer. :laughing:


#90

Plus, I mean, one employee’s beliefs do not mean that the company that person works for has the same.
I’m agnostic but that doesn’t mean that Turtle Rock is an agnostic game studio :thinking:


#91

1 man totally represents a company.
Just ask Subway. :wink:


#92

FuckDevilgif


#93

Holy crap this thread

I’m afraid you’re going a bit cuckoo, my friend.

Just a heads up, usually extremely devoted individuals to a religious belief, when gathered together, start seeing patterns of everything around their beliefs. I was raised in very devoted Christian family and later on I distanced myself completely of it

let me say with all possible conviction there is: people outside of your beliefs don’t give a flying percentage of crap of how much you believe they do on your deity. Not trying to insult, just saying that 90% of the time God references are not a part of the grander scheme of persuading the general population towards or away from a belief. It’s usually just “oh wouldn’t it make a credible world building getting some lines like this in this story? Yeah, that looks like convincing writing”


#94

Good to know :wink:

Thanks again for replying!

I’m more of a McDonald’s person :yum:


#95

Oh i know. I’ve directly poked fun at you before :stuck_out_tongue: but that’s because to me some of the questions feel silly, like just thinking about it a bit would yield an answer.

But in the end that’s why I’m only poking fun. The answer is probably obvious to you, and you’re just on a solid fact-finding mission.

Which is respectable, but occasionally a little tedious. And worth poking fun at. Just to help break up the monotony of a question, then answer format :]


#96

I get where you are coming from, and where you friend is coming from, but I highly doubt that TRS employees or anyone involved in the graphics - creation of this game were themselves satanistic or imbuing the game with their occultist knowledge or codes. I don’t see the fingerprints of that on the title nor from the publisher offhand, and such people like for their handiwork to be known so they do tend to leave earmarks for those of us who know where to look. Just because a Baphomet was pictured in the game does not make it satanic. The crosses are not crosses but medical “plus” signs (yes, also considered a cross), but they are not obviously inverted crosses like the type Christ was nailed to.

The underlying theme of L4D is one of human survival, and the makers of the game had to address the religious aspect of the world gone haywire, to make it feel more realistic to the player…seeing the scribblings of people losing their faith and their minds. That is not to say that the makers felt that what they wrote on the walls were their own sentiments, no more than a writer telling a story about a murderer is themselves a murderer. As a writer or creator of a world you often look at the dark side in order to create a realistic world or character, but that doesn’t make you yourself evil for taking stock of history, classically considered evil imagery, common knowledge themes about the devil, etc. etc.


#97

One thing I will mention on this by the way, even if it were an inverted cross, that is not a satanic symbol. It is still a holy one.

One of Jesus’ followers, who I can not recall the name of at the moment, was also crucified. But he requested his cross be turned upside down because he did not feel worthy enough to die in the same manner.

Sorry for the tangent, just felt the need to clear that up.


#98

That would be Peter.


#99

What do you mean? You said you don’t see anything satanic or similar?


#100

I think it’s easy, at a glance, to just pin satanism or occultism onto something in passing, @Zombie. But judging anything on the surface is fraught with danger.

As others have said above, I’ve never seen anything that is any kind of message that is particularly religious or anti-religious (or anywhere in between). There are messages that question the existence of god within the context of this apocalyptic level event, but that’s not to say that the designers are asking the audience to consider that… it’s that within the fiction of the game it entirely makes sense that in their panic and horror that people would choose to believe that god mustn’t exist if they’d let this happen. Or, in another vein, that they have remained very religious and that the believe what is happening is the culmination of humanity’s sins and the beginning of hell on earth as retribution.

The point is that while you may see things in the game that could be statanic, or christian, or indifferent… it’s all within the context of the world that you inhabit when you play the game, and it’s about how anonymous background characters would exhibit their variety of beliefs and worries in this world.

This is what fiction is, and what fiction does. It puts you in a universe and says “Here’s what different people might reasonably think” because writers that are even remotely worth their salt keep the the world they create diverse in order to give it depth.


#101

I mean to say, I understand wanting to steer clear of negative influences and companies or products that seem to push certain agendas. I do not see that with TRS nor the employees. Just because it contains zombies and violence doesn’t make it evil. I find L4D to be one of the safest games out there, in those regards.

It can be disturbing to see the scribblings on the walls but, honestly, it’s realistic, given the fiction of the world created. They are the imaginings of what people would be saying or thinking during this massive outbreak situation. Some would lose their faith, while others might actually see it as the end times apocalypse indeed occurring.

There are actually some Christians that believe a scenario like this is possible. Like many things in the Bible, various passages can be debated on at length, especially prophecy passages. Prophesies one can never know in full until it comes to pass…then you look back and go…“oooh yeah, that’s what it meant!” But there is a lot of speculation. I can say that a couple passages lend some credence to a zombie scenario or something similar…mainly:

Daniel 12:2 (KJV): “And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.”

Revelation 9:6 (KJV): “And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.”

I could see people in the L4D world, having a Christian faith already, both giving up on their faith or growing stronger in it. I can see atheists simply seeing it as a scientific plague based on a genetically modified virus affecting the prions of the brain, perhaps based somewhat on the rabies virus (I actually studied this to create a realistic zombie fiction myself), and I could also see some people worship the darkness as if perhaps in some way they could escape it themselves, perhaps by worshiping Lucifer. A satanically driven game would push the latter as an unwritten agenda. A story that is immersive and realistic draws you in, and that’s all the writing on the walls implies; I see nothing sinister and no intent towards that.

Hope this all helps.


#102

I disagree, although yes Peter did choose to die this way for the reasons you stated, the satanists have endorsed the inverted cross as their symbol of denying Christ and the power of His salvation. However, there are still some that only see the inverted cross as the symbol of St. Peter, and indeed there is a chair the Pope in Rome sits on that has an inverted cross carved in it. It by far, however, in the eyes of the masses and the intention of the Luciferian church, is seen as their symbol used to deny Christianity in general. Inverted crosses is their thing, and they wear them to showcase what they believe.

It’s kinda like…a sticker of a rainbow. Maybe you like rainbows, and it doesn’t mean anything but you like a lot of rainbows or colors, but you probably wouldn’t put a sticker of it on your car unless you were homosexual or showing support for the OBGYN community. Your intention may be to say “I just like rainbows” but the masses see the rainbow sticker on your car and immediately think rainbow = OBGYN. Same with the inverted cross. Maybe you may see the sign of St. Peter but most people see Satan in that.