A way to balance Arena


#1

Down in Pub, Kraken and Behemoth are all I ever see, making them the best choices with the highest win rates.

In Arena, it is way too easy for a Kraken to win as long as there is no Laz, but he can even beat a Laz. Sudden Death is a good way to balance the game for monsters such as Kraken and Behemoth, but the problem is that it doesn’t Arive fast enough. The monster can walk around smelling and find and kill you before SD kicks in.

I would like to see Smellavision removed for the monster, or make hunters undetectable during the countdown for SD and SD itself. This would help hunters out in SD.

I would then also like to see the monster start with 75% Armor, so hunters with deployables can set them up, whereas the monster can just bombrush the hunters. That or allow deployables in the countdown of an arena.


#2

I think Arena is pretty well balanced tbh, and Sudden Death is just “Douchebag detourrant”, keeps monsters from playing with their food, it isn’t really meant to give hunters a chance.


#3

I think its pretty balanced at the moment BUT I do think they should get rid of wildlife BUT make the monster stage 3 with half armor.


#4

It’s well balanced .

Kraken is Broken . Let’s wait till 9.0


#5

It’s Balanced for every monster BUT Kraken and Behemoth.

Sudden Death is there to help a hunter kill a monster. Because it would be too easy to kill a Medic then have the whole team die, and that is what makes Kraken OP in Arena.

Stage 3 does more Damage, has more HP, so that would be wayyy too monster favored.

Not against Behemoth and Kraken.


#7

I once set up a few custom games with a stage three no armor monster and that felt pretty fair to be honest.


#8

Was it with Friends? Was it with Bots? Down in Pub, a stage 3 would wreck everyone.


#9

man, whats your rank? cause high ranked hunter in my opion dont need that advantage.


#10

It was me and 5 friends with me spectating. Pretty decent monster with otherwise slightly better than pub friends.


#11

I don’t think I even have to state just how absolutely wrong this suggestion is. Removing smelling is unfun for any Monster, coupled with Emet? Gg.

This plus allowing Hunters a faster start time than Monsters? No, every nerf/buff needs some sort of opposite reaction to keep balance, flat out nerfing Monsters is not the way to go. There would have to be a repercussion for the Hunters.


#12

A monster doesn’t need to smell in combat. They can just see the outline/hp/name of the hunters.[quote=“10shredder00, post:11, topic:83483”]
This plus allowing Hunters a faster start time than Monsters? No, ever nerf/buff needs some sort of opposite reaction to keep balance, flat out nerfing Monsters is not the way to go. There would have to be a repercussion for the Hunters.
[/quote]

Then why do I seem to ALWAYS lose against a Kraken in Arena. On top of that, I’m a shit monster player, and even I can’t lose in Arena. So by your nerf/buff logic, Nerfing Kraken would require hunter buffs?

I’ve seen stand-alone nerfs that don’t need a buff to fix them. Because if you with your buff/nerf idea, nerfing Kraken and Behemoth would require hunter buffs, causing an effect on balanced monsters like Goliath.

This can be a stand-alone nerf to just Behemoth and Kraken in arena, since they have the highest winrate in pub. Just Kraken and Behemoth can’t use their smell.


#13

You answered this yourself.

Because pubs. Behemoth is a pubstomper and Kraken is Kraken.


#14

Monsters do not see these unless they smell. Do you now see the issue this causes.

  • Kraken is arguably the best Monster and even more debatably OP (I personally do not agree).

  • You’ve stated previously you are a pub player, even in the OP you stated this. Thus being a general pub player you are being matched with equally uncoordinated/inexperienced/whatever else teammates against a Monster who only needs himself to do the work. 4 uncoordinated things trying to accomplish one task is infinitely worse than a single thing trying to do one job four times.

  • Again, you’re a pub player, as stated above. One of you VS 4 uncoordinated persons will not end well for them.

  1. I’m inferring to Newton’s Third Law. “***For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.***” Cool you just nerfed Kraken, guess what? You’ll likely now have to lower some sort of thing he is affected by either stasis, harpoons, damage, etc. Changing one thing a lot of the time requires a change in some other aspect.

  2. Name a few “stand-alone nerfs”.

  3. Nerfing a Kraken or Behemoth would require Hunter nerfs. I don’t know where you went with the whole “bringing Monsters down and Hunters up notion” as that is a complete nerf and further develops my point I’m trying to make.

  4. Changing balance for some Monsters may very well have an effect on others. For example, they may change something about Kraken, say his height, now that he can fly higher stasis needs a greater effect. Now Goliath has a harder time getting away and now needs a buff to his traversal regen so he can get away faster.

And then you know what happens if you nerf exclusively two Monsters because they’re pubstompers? (FYI All Monsters are pubstompers) Everyone then swaps to one of the other four Monsters to which you will then come and suggest another change to nerf those ones.

You cannot nerf something just because people are bad at it, you can however adjust it to make it more manageable but you cannot just completely nerf it for no reason other than people are bad. Look at Launch Wraith, she was very strong, arguably the strongest Monster. It wasn’t because people were bad was that she got nerfed, it was because she was too good.
Eventually she began being changed to become more manageable and less frustrating and less OP, hell I’d say they did a good job; not saying I like what they did but I’m saying they made it arguably more fun to fight her.


See the picture I’m trying to paint now? You can’t just nerf something because pubs can’t manage to counter it, the key to the game is learning, you can’t learn if everything is just brought down and made easier for you.


#15

Arena is pretty well balanced, but I think it seems weighted towards monsters because the format means that monsters don’t play like they would at a stage 2 fight in Hunt.

in a Stage 2 hunt fight the dome is likely smaller (Arena domes may be larger than the Hunt domes for balance purposes), and the monster is likely only wanting to land some strikes if they can while not losing too much health.

In an Arena fight the monster knows that they can be 100% agressive in a targeted way. There is no need to think about how little health they might have in the next dome, so it’s treated as the final fight.

Any fight against a stage 2 monster with full health and armour is, IMO, weighted towards monsters that know their craft and have accuracy in their abilities… because playing against a monster that understands the hunters have to deal damage for at least a certain period of time, and that period of time is how long the monster has as almost “free” time to do its work and get people down.

It doesn’t always work out, but this only goes towards the aim TRS have for things being 50/50, sometimes the aggressive monster will miss someone being revived, or will misjudge an ability throw, and it costs them just enough time that the hunters have enough of that time to deal the fatal damage.

I feel that upcoming changes to the game will smooth out the balance issues that Arena has, because right now a good monster only needs to manage to get down the medic and it’s pretty much game over. I don’t think it’ll be as simple as this going forward and as such the power that an aggressive and confident monster has in Arena should, in theory, be reigned in a bit and make the mode feel more fair.


#16

A way to balance Arena? Fix the dome locations some of them favor one or the other way too much.


#17

I think Arena is perfectly balanced.


#18










I didn’t smell once and I was able to see them.

No Medic can heal enough to keep a hunter alive, because they all do regen over time. Caira could combat a Kraken, but a stage 2 Kraken can do more damage than she can heal up. Then comes Support. Shields are always good imo, but Sunny’s drone can be picked-off from afar via Krakens abilities. And the shields do run out, so what happens after that? That’s just in a perfect scenario where support isn’t being attacked.

I’ve been in coordnated games and even there, WITH a Laz, we could not beat Kraken. But is a skilled team is what it takes to bring a Kraken, then new players can’t stand a chance. As for being matched, in 2.0 I get stuck with with players under 60 hours. This is a picture of the results that come from a Kraken in 2.0:

Whereas I win 2 for a win. A legit win gives me 2. Uncoordnated or not, this is an issue.

Lets see, Jacks beam as I’ve seen, can’t dictate where a Kraken can fly. He’s not pushy whereas Griffin can stop him… from moving forward. From my perspective, he wins because Medic’s can not heal a stage 2’s damage output, because support can cloak, but not be protected from damage.

Lennox’s glitch/abuse of lvl 4 of plasma lance that was fixed. Jeez, that sure was OP and it didn’t require any fixed on the monster side of things. As for other examples, I can’t find any of the updates outside of the damage ones. I’m sure the now-long-ago Laz nerf didn’t require any monster buffs or fixes. Or how about Wraith? What buffs did the hunters get?

What classes would need nerfing if Behemoth and Kraken are nerfed. I’m only against’s Behemoths OPness on Defend, but a stage 2 in Arena is bad because of the tongue combos. to remind you, THIS is all in Arena. Not nerfing them outside of Arena, because those require different nerfs for the monsters.

I’m not looking at drastic changes such as height. I’m talking about changes that have an impact on how Arena is played, not monsters. Removing smell (for Kraken and Behemoth) does not make one monster better than another, it simply makes it fair, whereas a Wraith has less HP so she can track a hunter down and Behemoth is stacked on HP and has an easier time fighting because of the wiggleroom in his HP.

As I said above, it makes it fair. If you want to kill medic, then support fast like Kraken can, then you can sacrifice smell. If you want the most balance, be Goliath and you get to keep the smell. It’s not nerfing damage, HP, or abilities, it focuses on fairness.

So balancing the game based on the top tier players on the game and the competitive aspect in the top is the way to go? You do realize that a hunter who keeps loosing to a OP monster based off competitive standards will not likely come back? AND the fact that because monster players can exploit these competitive standards they will stay because they have a winning formula? Meaning I’ve seen more monster players who’ve clocked in over 1000 hours than hunters, and that is a 1:4 ratio.

By TRS making changes based off said competitive aspect in the top players of the game, then I’d say this is the main reason why people hate this game.

It’s harder to teach a new dog tricks than to have an old dog exploit tricks that are easy.


#19

Arena is just ever so slightly balanced. As you put it, monster has a slight advantage. Now take Kraken or Behemoth who both can do a great deal of damage by isolating hunters, and then you have a win. Behemoth and his tongue grab combos, and Kraken with his vortex, pushing hunters into areas where a Medic and/or Support can not help, and then camping the body.

@niaccurshi
@Zetrocci
This balance is suppose to nerf Kraken and Behemoth, whereas people reading this post seem to ignore the fact that I stated this was against Kraken and Behemoth, not all monsters.


#20
  • Screenshots don’t prove the point as you may have smelled.

  • On second thought however yes, in very close proximity they are visible, this however doesn’t change my point in that without smelling you basically have a free-pass to win in Arena mode. That plus cloaking/spores that also help negate this close-range vision.

  • In reference to point #2 the point of “SUDDEN DEATH” is to stop the Monster from playing with his food, it forces him to end the game swiftly or die. Changing it so Hunters have an automatic win if support/Slim are alive is just not balanced nor fun.

  • Val

  • Lazarus

  • Caira

  • Slim

All initial four medics have primary healing that comes in bursts. Val heals directly and heals primarily through heal bursts but if you want to be picky then there still leaves Lazarus, Caira, and Slim. The only real medics that do “regen over time” is Rogue Val and Emet. No other medic.

The whole point is the fact that the medic should have to try to do more heals than a Kraken can dish out. The team is supposed to mitigate damage and make the medic’s job easier and actually doable.
If I eat a rock throw, a leap smash, a charge, and a firebreath, should I expect the medic to save me? No. No medic should be able to heal more than a Monster, that’s why the team has to mitigate if they want to win.

Wait for the shield to replenish or just replace it. The drone is still very strong.

  • Again, Kraken is arguably the best Monster.

  • It requires a lot of communication and experience to kill an experienced Monster.

  • New players fight new Krakens. Kraken isn’t as easy to pick up and play as everyone thinks so new players won’t have to deal with the tryhard Krakens that level 40s do.

  • Hunt 2.0 is a completely different matter, let’s stay on topic shall we?

Jack’s beam controls where the Kraken can’t fly, it also controls his vertical altitude as you can push him downwards.

  • Medics shouldn’t be able to outheal all damage by themselves.

  • Don’t like being vulnerable when cloaked? Pick better times to cloak and move in less predictable ways.

  • This was, as you said, a glitch/exploit.
    ***Fixing a glitch or exploit doesn’t require a balance change as it wasn’t meant to be there to begin with and thus, nothing was balanced around that happening THUS everything was balanced around the intended function of it, i.e no exploit.***.
    It didn’t need a balance change because it wasn’t balanced as it wasn’t meant to be there.

What nerf are you talking about?

  • One second dome times.
  • Consistent jetpacks.

Two changes that specifically were made to allow for more domes on every Monster including Wraith. Plus this is a counter to a futile argument, Wraith was unbalanced at launch, yes she was very cool and many (including myself) love Launch Wraith more than Post-Nerf Wraith. Had other changes been employed she could’ve stayed the same while being balanced but instead was changed.
Again, Wraith was unbalanced, as such the Hunters didn’t need to be buffed just because one Monster was too strong, it just meant that one Monster had to be brought down. Now if Wraith was balanced and then was nerfed then Hunters would need to be brought down in some aspect or another to keep the balance against her specifically.

  • Depending on the nerfs, all of them.
  • Behemoth is OP on Defend if teams can’t counter him.
  • They cannot make buffs/nerfs specific to a gamemode. That would require a LOT more coding.

You seem to have missed the FOR EXAMPLE I placed.

No in-fact it doesn’t. If two of the six Monsters lack basic functionality that all Monsters should have then that effectively makes those two worse than the other four. That’s like me suggesting that Torvald and Lennox shouldn’t have personal shields because they’re always in my face and I want to punish them, NO, that’s absurd, that would make those two infinitely worse than the other four.

ALSO, Wraith has a very small frame and silhouette while she deals heavy burst damage, she doesn’t require that much health. A lot of health would make her too strong as she could fight a lot more and have little risk because she wouldn’t take a lot of damage while dish it out and if she did she’d have a lot of remaining health. Behemoth on the other hand is slow, all of his abilities root him, every ability reveals his weakpoint, and he’s gigantic. He needs a lot of health otherwise he’s as good as toast.

This is the exact opposite of fairness, this is just discrimination against your least favorite to fight Monsters.

The game is balanced around BOTH casual and competitive play. You cannot balance around casual just because you want a fun experience, balance around casual and you lose the competitive scene, balance around competitive and you lose the casual scene. It has to stay as balanced as it can between the two without upsetting the natural balance.

http://gifsec.com/wp-content/uploads/GIF/2014/04/Oh-really-gif_1.gif?gs=a

####Well that’s just unheard of that a Monster player would have 4x as many hours as any typical Hunter player. Who would’ve thought that in a 4v1 asymmetrical shooter the 1 in the 4:1 ratio would have more playtime :scream:

No, the main reason people hate on this game is the poor marketing and the fact that everyone jumped on the misinformed bandwagon of bigots who had no idea what the game was, is, or will be and accuse TRS and 2K of being greedy money-grabbers just because they saw the standard being thrown in with a Titanfall-esque game.
They’re showing us what their plan is from the start instead of being super secretive about it? ***CRUCIFY THEM FOR BEING HONEST!***”

This is basically why everyone dislikes the game.


Now, you seem to have either:

  • Completely misunderstood everything I said.

  • Don’t care about what I said.

  • Are trolling.

  • Are not reading anything I’m saying at all.


Or any other reason in why you would respond in such a ridiculous way, I’m kinda believing it’s a mix of them all. Regardless, unless I see a legitimate counter-argument in response I feel I won’t be replying again because I’ve shared my feelings before and will do so one final time.

  • You cannot nerf Kraken and Behemoth just because pubs cannot deal with them. How can you expect to learn in a game where learning is key when everything is just handed to you or made easier because you cannot handle it? It isn’t a fair change either, removing a basic function from two Monsters that all Monsters have is just plain discrimination against those two because you may not be able to counter them.
    All in all I’m completely against the suggested change in the OP. It’s unfair, unbalanced, biased, and more.

#21

Karken has a huge advantage with his snowballs stopping revives. It’s no surprise that you lost assuming the Karken made it to S2 and was able to mitigate or attack efficiently.

In some of your pictures, without smelling, you see the names of one or two hunters, and not all of them. Who knows who you’ll be focusing.

Want to get Laz down? Psych, it was trapper all along.

Add Slim into the mix, and oh boy. You’ll meet the true Shredder.

You got AngryJoe to thank for that.

Trs is aiming to balance pubs and high teir, competitive side.

Not sure what you mean by your last line, anybody can exploit. :stuck_out_tongue:

Yep.

“A hunter”? Where’s the rest of your team? What do you mean ny “will not likely come back”? To their “former glory”? Each hunter can be very good against some Monsters, but not as great on the rest.

Also, there is no Op Monster. Kraken is strong, but any good team can beat him.

“Winning formula”? Cheat codes? /kappa

There is no “exploit”. The game is currently, and most likely will always be, Hunter favored. We need to stop focusing on pubs and more on the competitive scene. If for example, top player matches were near 50/50, I’d say the game is pretty balanced. If you look at pubs however, they’re doomed there for eternity. They’ll probably never get better, no mics, no teamwork, and do you think you can balance that?

Doesn’t have to mean anything, he could be playing pubs. All those people just have a lot of free time and love to Monster, and I can’t blame them.

Removing smell for Karken and Bob? I never knew that Slim’s spore cloud had permanent effects on Monsters. /jokes

Removing smell for Karken and Beh does make them infintely worse. Not knowing who you’re attacking, not smelling footprints, not knowing where they’re going.

Fair? Remove cloak for hunters, and while you’re at it, guns. Fair is a subjective term, but GeSUz that is not fair.

Bob stacked on Hp? Have you forgotten how his abilities root him? He’s not Op, he’s a pubstomper. And if anything, needs buffs, not nerfs like not smelling in arena. Wiggleroom, please.

Ah, I see Shredders post, I think he’ll handle it. :wink: