9.0 Suggestion: Low incentive to kill the medic


#1

Orginally I was going to hold back with Suggestions until 9.0. But since it is delayed for so long, I will utter them now, so if the Devs deem them good, they might make it into 9.0. Keep in mind, that I am aware this is based upon nothing but assumptions about the 9.0 meta.

So it has been said, that killing a incapped Hunter will be a lot harder (higher health?) and more punishing (higher pistol damage?) for the Monster. Despite that, I expect that killing the Medic once it has been incaped will still be a very common and rewarding tactic, as it means no healing for the rest of the team, thus permanent damage with every attack.
There are 2 main suggestions, that will need rebalance of healing numbers and Monster damage, but should make the Medic less rewarding to finish off.

##1. Incapped Medics can self-revive with Healbursts
Killing off a Hunter might take longer with higher health, but being in the general vicinity and knocking everybody off who tries a revive will still render the incapped Medic’s healing useless.

For every other hunter, this tactic is not as effective, as a Medic may perfom a long range revive through healing, so if the Monster wants to keep the body down, he has to damage it every once in a while.

It maybe important to note, that Emet already can self revive with a Buoy. With excellent timing, a self revive with Caira or Slim was possible for some time.

As far as I know, there are 3 values for the Healburst: Heal other, heal self and heal incapped. There would be need of a 4th value, heal self incapped, which allows over the time of 2 to 3 healburst to revive oneself if besides bleed out no damage is recieved.

##2. Tiny amount of passive healing for every Hunter
When there is no Medic, there is no healing. But what if there was? I am not talking about much. In the current state of a 2 minute dropship timer and 1600 health per Hunter, I would suggest 10 HPS for every Hunter at any given time, with a rebalance of Healing and Monster damage of course. Like that, a damaged Hunter heals up to almost full when the Medic arrives, so that the Monster can’t just come 5 seconds before and finish that Hunter off with a single ability.

Considering the Health regeneration perk, it could be redesigned to a “Recieve more healing” perk, similar to the Increased Armor regneration, which would increase all recieved healing by a set amount (like 10%)

Some neat side effects would be for example:

  • The redesigned 9.0 Lazarus would have it easier to keep his teammates alive
  • Slim and Rogue Val who can only heal attacked targets within 30/35 meter range, would have at least a tiny bit of healing until they get in range to actively heal.
  • Val which at lower levels has trouble to heal up the damage teammates recieve when grouping up, would have an easier time with that.
  • DoT abilities would have a smaller effect against unexperienced players who stay in a Lava Pool for example.

And once again, because I am sure some readers skipped it: Yes, these changes would some healing values to be lower and some Monster damage to be higher.
.


#2

Evolve still has the kill medic meta

Pretty much if medic goes down it is the end of the game

2 minute dropship timer has to be reduced … in Quick shot (10 min gameplay - 1:15 dropship timer) monster can pull a win before hunter are able to cut back from the drop ship

It’s pretty easy to keep track to cloaked hunters footprints … why is it 2 min ?

Drop ship time / kill the medic meta : it’s in monsters advantage . Hunters normally can’t win unless if the monster did some serious mistakes


#3

I’m against these suggestions as well.

Holy cow no. This will cause many issues. While it is already possible with Emet, in another of your threads I’ve stated that diversity is good. Having a medic that can revive himself is cool and unique. Giving all medics this ability is bad. What if there’s an orbital and you need to get away? An orbital drill? A mortar strike? A poison cloud? There’s a load already that discourages body camping and with the change to make downed Hunters even more durable and punishing.

No, 100% against medic self-rez if it is not Emet and done by his buoys.

You want this? Sacrifice your favorite perk for health regeneration. Medic is #1 priority for both Hunters and Monsters. Once they’re gone the Monster has the right to take advantage. Giving them a passive heal? No way José. Protect the medic better or take HR. You want this then give Monsters a passive heal too. What? Healing permanent damage is considered unfair for the Monster’s side because they can just get the buff? Precisely.


I’m 1000% against these suggested changes. Medic will always be Public Enemy #1 to Monsters because they keep everyone up and get them up faster. They’re the most helpful class and therefore are first to target. There’s hardly anything that can be done to avoid this and these changes are, in my eyes, unfair and unnecessary given we do not know the full patch notes.


#4

wrong public enemy number 1 is hank


#5

While I agree with you that these changes would be toxic for Monster play (and possibly Medic play. Some of these changes would make me want to try harder to kill the Medic), it is very debatable that Hank and Sunny can take the Medic’s place in terms of priority, although Medic is still right behind them.


#6

Medic isn’t my first target I prefer to take out the support first,then medic ,then trapper, and lastly assault.


#7

Sry, Im against your suggestions.
It’ll make monster player play only monster that has high burst damage potential.


#8

Ya i hate being medic cuz you get focused so much and your forever stuck in a never ending fall back animation lol


#9

I can definitely see an argument for going for a medic over Hank, but Sunny is always going to be #1 priority at least for me. Let’s assume Val for simplicity in each case:

Hank:

The two survivability hunters (read: nauseating beam team), you have to go for one or the other, any other tactic (barring laughable hunter misplay) will have you headbutting a brick wall. So you either go for Hank and have Val healing or go for Val and have Hank shielding.

If you go for Hank he mitigates till he runs out of fuel then cloaks and runs, while Val is healing the entire time - he’s more vulnerable to burst damage since the damage is being undone instead of blocked completely but the medigun still heals quite fast and drains much slower than shield on a focused hunter.

If you go for Val then Hank shields and blocks ALL your damage, but the damage you do drains the shield battery and it runs out far faster than the medgun which then leaves mitigation and heal burst as her only option (YMMV for other medics and possible self-healing). The shield regenerates too but overall is less capable against sustained damage.

There are arguments to be made for focusing medic over support (ignoring other two since assault / trapper intervention can apply to either).

Sunny:

Would you look at that, someone fixed the I-WIN button I found in Alterac once. I refuse to acknowledge any strategy involving allowing Sunny free reign over the battlefield. If you let her run around any decent player will drop a shield drone in a good elevated spot and immediately distance themselves from it, which means you now have THREE high priority targets instead of two. If you go for the medic she gets shielded and boosted. If you go for sunny she gets shielded and healed. If you go for the drone Sunny drops another and runs away from that before you can clip both of them at once and the cycle repeats. I like to call it “The Triple Penetration Approach”.

The only viable tactic aside from getting the medic out of LoS (which a good team will fight tooth and nail to stop you doing) is to get on Sunny immediately at the start of the fight and destroy every single shield drone she drops as soon as she drops them, so she can’t get far away from it before she has to drop another. Then you take every opportunity to clip her with any attack you possibly can. You can’t use your full dps potential on her but it’s better than the alternatives, see above. She can’t booster herself and her drone is dealt with as quickly as possible so your overall damage is reduced but you make progress. I have tried alternatives but as a Wraith main I haven’t found any that work (and this one barely does). I suppose as Kraken you aren’t hindered by the distance between the overpowered win automation unit and the drone she drops, at least not as much.

Just my two cents on the matter, if you disagree I’d love to hear your reasoning, I’ve never been able to manage Sunny effectively.


#10

How much more hunter favored do you want this game to be lmao, no way


#11

It’s our turn last patch made it in favour of the monsters lol now it’s our time to shine…wooop!


#12

The only time the game was monster favored was release era.

I don’t think medics should be able to burst themselves up, nor heal while downed, IMO these suggestions are ridiculous and completely favor hunters, if your medic gets downed it’s on your team and you should pay the price.


#13

Yeah i agree on that! does sound a bit hunter favoured but maybe they need to balance the monster feeding times because i hate within 1-2 mins of landing from dropship the monster is already S2 like wtf! ridiculous really when it’s a 20min match you shouldn’t be able to Evolve that quickly in my opinion


#14

I find it fair seeing as the hunters can find you in 20 seconds when they land. Do you not think it would be ridiculous to change monster feeding to any different amount so they can’t evolve fast but leave the hunters going “Lmao there he goes right there, dome him, herp derp” as soon as they land?


#15

I’m gonna go ahead and ignore most of above replies because they - as they always do in these kinds of suggestion threads - take things way out of context, focus on 1 thing and then immediately assume the game balance would be broken.
Suggestion topics could be a lot friendlier and open-minded if people wouldn’t accuse each other of trying to make the game incredibly Hunter or Monster -favored. No one wants that.

Now, I personally dislike the idea because, call me ignorant, I don’t necessarily see the problem in a meta that screams “Kill the Medic first!”.
This isn’t necessarily even as black and white as it was at launch to begin with, since players have gotten adept at Hank, Sunny has been released, and Val, Lazarus, Hank, Sunny, Maggie, Wasteland Maggie, Griffin, Jack, Markov, Blitzkov, Torvald and Lennox ALL require you to shift your attention to them or their kit multiple times throughout an engagement, be that:

  • Breaking a Harpoon Trap cable
  • Leaping out of the way to dodge mortars
  • Simply having such a strong defensive output like Slim or Sunny that they need to be killed first.

Personally I find this fucking annoying and impossible to deal with for some Monsters, but that’s another issue for another time.

The point is that “Kill the Medic first” is no longer as straightforward and simple as it was at launch. If it were, then I would consider the suggestions you made fairly good, but in the game’s current state I do not.
Target prioritization has become an infinitely difficult and confusing struggle and depends highly on the Hunter comp and Monster pick.

People who say to me “Just go for Slim first” when I’m up against a Slim/Sunny/Jack/Torvald combo deserve a smack on their head because things aren’t that simple.
Were I to indeed literally focus all my attention on Slim then I would never get him down due to Sunny, hardly get anywhere thanks to Jack and lose all my health to Torvald.
It’s a functional cycle that adds depth to Monster gameplay.


Where was I going with this again? Ah, right.
Even assuming that in theory TRS would be able to get this balanced just right, I’m still not a fan on the concept.
The best moment in most matches of playing Monster is right after you get Medic down. It brings along a feeling of satisfaction and that the worst is behind you.
Why?

Because 1.) The Medic was the strongest link in the circle that is Hunters.
and
2.) As soon as you get 1 down, that circle collapses and the other Hunters quickly follow.

It’s at that point of the match that things get interesting. When the Hunters continue to fight, they will have to watch their health. No one’s going to point a Medgun at them when they’re in dire need.

When they flee, the great hunt begins. While the 1-3 survivor(s) are camping somewhere in the corners of a map waiting for that blasted dropship timer to hit 0, they are still at a laughably low amount of health. They add tension and a sense of urgency to the Monster to either hunt the remaining Hunters down or have a go at reaching stage 3 and destroying that Power Relay.

If you were to give every Hunter a passive health regen (instead of just the ones with the Health Regen perk as it is now) then where’s the fun in hunting down Hunters that chose to flee? I get to watch Hunters slip away and then 1 minute later after reaching stage 3 I get shot off the Power Relay by that same batch of survivors that is now at full health?
I don’t see the thrill in that.

And while I do understand exactly why you’d want to make Medic less of a “vital role”, I think the importance of the Medic role is doing a perfect job right now. It acts as a beacon of light in the confusing mess that is playing Monster.
It doesn’t confuse, it doesn’t add further complexity to the question “Who the hell do I target first?”.

Medic currently is and imo should be, a beacon of light saying “I’m the Medic. As soon as you’ve killed me, the game is pretty much already won.” A beacon of light that needs to be smacked on the head by a Leap Smash so that once dead, Monsters can feel satisfaction and a sense of actual progress that they made in a fight.


#16

I agree that Sunny is always top priority, no matter what. I prioritize Hank over Val because, provided I separate him from the group, if I down him, it doesn’t matter how much I’ve done to the other, because the team is one component away from getting crippled, and that is Val herself. I think you have great reasoning though.


#17

Personally, I would rather see the amount of health lost from a strike be reduced. So that taking a strike is less game ending all around . As opposed to having the healers role become more or less powerful in any particular situation

If this were implemented I think It would subsequently reduce the stress of being medic. Especially late game


#18

… No more words…

[quote=“Rick, post:15, topic:84406”]
“Who the hell do I target first?”.
[/quote]This is not what this suggestion is about. It’s not about the initial target, its about the body camping of a incapacitated target. If it is Assault, Trapper or Support, the medic will heal them from a distance which makes outright killing them much more difficult than killing the Medic, who can only use a pitiful healburst. So that’s suggestion 1: The medic is much easier to kill off than the other hunters.
In addition to that, the game swings hugely in favor of the Monster once the Medic is out for 2 minutes. It’s a low effort massive reward tactic to kill the medic once he has been incapacitated. You may like that as a Monster, but as Hunters, especially as Medic, its not that fun.

And 10 HPS is not that much honestly. If you focus down the medic, most of the team wont have lost that much health anyways. If they do and split up, what does the monster do most of the time? Either armor up first and then find a Hunter for another strike, or kill one hunter, then the next, then armor up. I will however make it far more easy for the 3rd hunter to survive and not die while the dropship arrives. So basicly it would make a full 4v1 engagement after the dropship more likely.

But yeah, the main problem here is, that the reason you dislike this suggestion are exaclty the ones why I suggested it in the first place.


#19

I am not sure if this is what we need but I like the thinking. something needs to be done to help keep the medic up because right now in evolve you have to take a defense comp. I think the first thing that needs to be done is get the supports all on the same level. defense supports like Hank and Sunny I feel are throwing off the balance. because you need to take a Hank or Sunny to even keep your medic up in high level play I feel.


#20

If they reduced the health penalty of a strike they would need to rebalance strikes completely, probably adding more max strikes and lowering health values all round. That way each strike is less punishing in the long run but the monster isn’t completely shafted.

I’d be all for that approach, it would make it easier for the monster to make progress against a team and stop engagements from being so black-and-white. I’ve lost count of the number of times I’ve had a hunter on 2% health then had them suddenly shielded and snap back to full health within 5 seconds, costing me VERY permanent health damage while all my effort is undone in a matter of seconds.

I’ve always thought it should be easier for the monster to deal lasting damage, even if that damage isn’t as severe as it is now. What would you think of a 10% health penalty per strike with 4 max strikes, but a significantly lower health pool?

Edit: It would also need to be easier to pick people up to avoid easier TPKs