[2.16 Update] Discussion Resource: Comparison of medics' healing output

Updated to the final patch 2.16, with Val buff (+6.6% other, +5.5% self) and Slim nerf (-9.4% other, -7.4% self). Also note Emet and PaPa have slightly more reliable healing.
Updated to patch 2.15, with Slim nerfs (-3.0% other, -2.9% self).
Apparently I screwed up at some point and silver capacity was always the way to go for Slim. Oh well, small difference anyway.
Updated to patch 2.14, with huge Caira buff (+9.4% other, +6.7% self) and RVal buff (+3.7% other).
Updated to patch 2.13, with RVal buff (+2.4%) and Quira buff (+1.0%).
Updated to patch 2.11, with Val buff (+3.2%), Slim changes, and PaPa nerf (-4.0%).
This time I calculated Righteous Fury in. IT WAS A HUGE PAIN.

So I compared all of the medics’ healing output, and I’m sharing the results. DISCUSS AWAY!! I’m using Pa (PaPas, not Pascals) as a unit of comparison, because why not? I’m feeling silly. And medics apply pressure, and Pascals is a unit of pressure… get it? Nevermind.

List of things I guessed, or used unconfirmed values:

  • Val’s medgun all stats (except hps and reload)
  • RVal’s medgun all stats (except hps)
  • RVal’s self heal amount

DISCLAIMER: Raw healing output, while very useful, is not always the best or most indicative tool for analytics. Most of these values are created under some not-always-true assumptions and simplifications, like Caira never missing a nade, Slim and PaPa not getting tumbled too much, Emet always able to land HB, etc… On top of that, raw healing output does not take into account the advantages of being able to roach without shooting, heal without LoS, and the revivifier/respawn beacon. It also does not account for the value of utility options like tranq darts/speed boost, or even damage output.

Additional note: It seems Val and Caira (only these two) have a 0.5s “discharge time” on their Heal Bursts, where the skill is not cooling down. I will be adding that to their HB timers. Also, Caira’s HB is on 20s (not including that). My bad.


Category: Heal Other

PaPa, RF included
Perks: silver reload, gold capacity
these perks give MORE healing than double reload, even with lower RF cooldown
this is including the RF cooldown, during RF it’s 181.5
130.9 = 6120/(6/10060+3.5/1.11) + 13*(6120/(6/(1001.8)*60+3.5/(1.11+0.67))-6 *120/(6/100 *60+3.5/1.11))/(13+30/1.11)
*damn those calculations, and sorry for the random spaces, the forum uses * as italics)

PaPa, without RF
Perks: silver reload, gold capacity
106.6 = 6120/(6/10060+3.5/1.11)
PaPa - RF = 0.81 Pa

Val
Perks: silver and gold class cooldowns (should be mitigation though?)
109.7 = 79.3+30.4 = 115*11.1/(11.1+1+4) + 307/(12/1.25+0.5)
Val = 0.84 Pa

Rogue Val
Perks: silver and gold class cooldowns
yes, reload would increase this, but only to 85.3 hps
does not include healing other hunters, if injured, at the same time
87.3 = 47.3+40.0 = 75*11.1/(11.1+1+5.5) + 40.0
RVal = 0.64 Pa

Lazarus
Perks: silver and gold class cooldowns
yes, I know Laz’s “healing” is incomparable, but for completeness’ sake…
56.8 = 500/11*1.25
Laz = 0.43 Pa

Caira
Perks: silver reload, gold capacity (double reload gives 115.3)
117.0 = 100.0+17.1 = 6125/(6/7560+3/1.11) + 350/20.5
Caira = 0.89 Pa

Slim
Perks: silver capacity, gold reload
all hail lord Slim! he can now somewhat-reliably get 2-shot HBs.
each shotgun shot “heals” half a HB, which is 72.5hp
143.4 = 72.59/(9/18060+1.8/1.16)
Slim = 1.09 Pa

Emet
Perks: silver and gold class cooldowns
40hps buoy healing separated
0% buoy time: 62.5 = 300/6*1.25
100% buoy time: 102.5
Emet = 0.48 to 0.78 Pa


Category: Heal Self

PaPa, RF included
Perks: silver reload, gold capacity
extra tankiness from 25% DR not included
4 shots per HB, 8 shots per mag, 2 HB per mag (requires only 44% pellet accuracy, 14/32 per 4 shots)
163.3 = 2475/(8/12060+3.5/1.11) + 13*(2475/(8/(1201.8)*60+3.5/(1.11+0.67))-2 *475/(8/120 *60+3.5/1.11))/(13+30/1.11)

PaPa, without RF
Perks: silver reload, gold capacity
4 shots per HB, 8 shots per mag, 2 HB per mag (requires only 41% pellet accuracy, 13/32 per 4 shots)
132.8 = 2475/(8/12060+3.5/1.11)
PaPa - RF = 0.81 Pa

Val
Perks: silver and gold class cooldowns
57.4 = 580/(12/1.25+0.5)
Val = 0.35 Pa

Rogue Val
Perks: silver and gold class cooldowns (who would do this? but whatever)
I don’t know the exact heal, I’m assuming 1200
78.9 = 1200/19*1.25
RVal = 0.48 Pa
Note: RVal gets 40 additional health per second until she’s forced to pop her heal.

Lazarus
Perks: silver and gold class cooldowns
for self healing, Laz’s healing is relevant
69.8 = 56.8+13.0 = 500/111.25 + 4012/37
Laz = 0.43 Pa

Caira
Perks: silver reload, gold capacity
assuming Caira keeps 'nading herself
65.1 = 48.0+17.1 = 660/(6/7560+3/1.11) + 350/20.5
Caira = 0.39 Pa

Slim
Perks: silver and gold reload
each shotgun shot “heals” half a HB, which is 70hp
mutated adrenal gland is included
153.5 = 138.4+15.1 = 709/(9/18060+1.8/1.16) + 6*80/(6+30/1.16)
Slim = 0.94 Pa

Emet
Perks: silver and gold class cooldowns
40hps buoy healing separated
0% buoy time: 62.5 = 300/6*1.25
100% buoy time: 102.5
Emet = 0.38 to 0.63 Pa


Special Section: Quantum Caira
Quira is in a section of her own because I don’t have confirmation on a lot of her values, and also because nobody stays in those damn fields, so this is a horrible misrepresentation. (As opposed to the others, where it’s just a small misrepresentation.)
Perks: silver and gold reload
you could use double capacity for slightly more healing at 115.5, but getting Neutron Barrier back faster probably helps more.
112.2 = 88.2+24.0 = 3140/(3/7560+3/1.27) + 528/21
Quira (other) = 0.87 Pa
Quira (self) = 0.69 Pa

This is for both other and self healing, unless Quira has a self-healing penalty… Does she? I don’t know.


Any math-inclined folks, please check my work. Anyone who can supply numbers where I used the wrong value, please tell me too.

Quick conclusion (updated 2.16):
Slim finally tanks a heavy nerf, and now just barely outheals PaPa for other-healing, and loses out badly on self-healing. In addition to his damage nerf, there isn’t really a reason to pick him over PaPa now, unless it’s to counter spread damage like Meteor. Val climbs a bit, but not quite enough to join the big leagues.


And so, for the forseeable future, this is it.

15 Likes

Caira’s self heal on nades is indeed 60. And I’m still pretty sure her cooldown on the heal burst is longer than 12 seconds.

You forgot the passive heal again as well.

Not sure how you came to that conclusion. In your calculation he has the highest health per second for self healing.

Alright, I’ll remove that uncertainty.

BRB, testing.

Ok, editing.[quote=“AscendedOne, post:2, topic:103321”]
In your calculation he has the highest health per second for self healing.
[/quote]

PaPa gets DR, which makes his health worth more.

2 Likes

Okay, seems like 20 or 21s. I’m gonna go with 21.

Update: It’s 20, but it has a 1s “cast time” where the meter drains down instead of recharging. This delay also applies to Val, at the least. Hang on, I’m testing them all.

Update 2: Laz seems to have 11s cd and no discharge time.

Update 3: It seems this delay only applies to Val and Caira, and it’s more 0.5s than 1s. Will update numbers now.

2 Likes

Awesome work, especially the 2.11 version. I would actually love to see Quaira being included as well, especially since she seems to get buffed now.

This is not how the reload perks work. It would be 3.5 * (1 - 0.11). This means that the reload perks are stronger than you think they are.

I dont know if this was changed in Stage 2, but previously it was 12 seconds with a 0.5 duration, meaning that silver and gold class cooldown would result in 550 / (12 * (1 - 0.25) + 0.5).

Okay, edits complete.

@Alcatraz, maybe “nobody cares about Quira” is no longer true, but Quira is a complete nightmare to calculate. What numbers am I supposed to use? In particular, how many seconds will a hunter stay in each of her fields?

The perks are reload speed and class cooldown speed, not reload time and class cooldown time. As of now, I believe the way I calculated it is the way it works, unless you can show some proof otherwise, then I will rectify it.

Alright, thanks for the confirmation. It has been tested and corrected.

This again… People getting hung up on the language. Hold on, I am getting a video, so that I can quote that later.

Hmm that’s a good question. I’m not sure if you’re able to calculate it this way:

Quaira always stacks 4 fields and the hunter is inside them 100% of the time, you’d need to calculate the time how long 1 field lasts on its own and consider that the healing fields decay over time so the healing-amount is becoming less over time until Quaira stacks new fields.

Her “HB” (don’t know its name) would also be active whenever it can be active. I believe her “damage-resistance” ability should be ignored and just added there as a note.

She is really simple to calculate. Calculate her like Caira except each grenade heals for 140 (Each grenade heals 5 times and each tick heals for 28 health) and you have one less per clip. You are calculating maximum potential, not trying to determine what the most likely amount is.

Nope, forget the video and what I said. Apperantly they changed it in Stage 2. It is calculated by division.
This means that the reload perks are weaker than I thought they were.
Though before Stage 2 I am 100% confident that they were working differently, for the very reason that I thought they would work how they are working now.

This also explains the results that I did not understand here:

They make perfect sense when you calculate reload / (1 + perk value) instead of reload time * (1 - perk value).

This also means that I need to change my “optimized” perk builds for various characters.

1 Like

Val seems so bad in the raw stats, hard to believe she is so good. Same with Emet.
They seem to be good bcs they don’t suffer from accuracy and have positive synergy with defensive Supports (Val + Hank/Sunny ; Emet+Bucket [which is a full 100% heal]).
It really makes ypu think.
Also Slim got a buff realistically speaking.

Also, Capacity doesn’t increase the consistent HPS on medguns (not talking about burst bcs then you can disclude reload) or am I wrong?

Capacity increases the amount of time you can spend firing the medgun but also the time to recharge it. Capacity is a bonus to your overall healing since there is a delay before the recharge period meaning that it will be relatively slightly shorter to recharge the same percentage of battery. I.E. a 50% larger battery will take slightly less than 50% more time to recharge.

If your question is whether or not capacity increases the health per second of the ray itself, then the answer is no.

So… TL:DR, Slim still heals for the most but requires incredible aim, though there is more room for error since the latest update?

I suppose but I feel like that kinda glosses over the fact that they it used to require nearly 100% accuracy for slims best case scenario without class cooldowns as a perk, whereas now it only requires 50%.

Ok so… highest healing for allies and self-healing (Not sure if Adrenal Gland outweighs Papa’s righteous fury for selfheal) as well as dishing out damage while healing (not much, but its more than Papa/Val/Caira will do since they have to focus on healing).

Any reason to not pick Slim now?

@Alcatraz @AscendedOne
Okay, I’ll do Quira assuming 100% field time, but that will definitely be a misrepresentation.

EDIT: Where can I get reliable Quira stats? I’ve done a quick search, but a few sources disagree on or fail to give some or all of the stats. I need:
Regeneration Field: rate of fire, reload time, health per second, duration
Generyst II Field: duration

No, capacity increases the time you can fire from full before running out of charge, and the time to recharge to full, by the stated amount.

No, 50% (3/6 per shot) pellets hit is nowhere near “incredible aim”. As long as you aren’t trying to snipe, and using ironsights when appropriate, you’re good. Previously, to hit these levels of healing, you needed to land 6/6 about half the time and 4/6 the rest.

PaPa is still stronger against medic focus since he has 25% DR on RF. On top of that, his relative burstiness when activating RF can help teammates survive a calamitous moment when the monster manages to land 3-4 abilities in a row, like when they run out of jetpack. Slim’s constant healing will be outpaced in such a situation, but PaPa has a “strong mode” and a “standby mode” (which is still about as strong as Val/Caira).

Since Slim just barely outheals PaPa, the only real advantage to him (over PaPa) is countering damage that hit multiple hunters at once.

Oh, and both these values are already in the calculation.

Really awesome work, everyone who reads needs to give a like. Calculating stuff like this for our benefit helps average players like us make better decisions. I hope you never stop updating this and thanks for putting your free time on the line. It is much appreciated.

2 Likes

Woah there, that’s a little strong. My social awkwardness is tingling.

Well, you’re welcome. I did this partially for myself, really, so that I had some numbers to discuss with, and why not share them then? On that note, for the forseeable future, yes, I will continue to update this. Picking up other things (assault damage maybe?) remains to be seen, if I have the spare time. But updating this is relatively low-effort.

1 Like